Mulling over BP/W options...

[dmaziuk]

I am not myself diving metal plates, but I have a hunch that stability comes mostly from having a belt that rests on the hips. This is also crucial on the surface when you carry, especially if you have a herniated lumbar disc (which is the case of 30% of the population) you dont want to carry with the shoulders. When I look at backplates that are about 39cm high, I cannot help but think that it is impossible to have both easy access to your valves and a proper waist belt position. Unless you are Danny DeVito. A waist belt that is too high but tight enough to stabilise would IMO restricts deep ventral breathing, which is detrimental to air consumption and increases the risc of getting out of breath.

Somehow I've been able to keep it snug without suffocating myself so far -- yes, the waist strap goes higher than where my hiking backpack's padded belt goes, but that doesn't seem to make that much difference underwater. OTOH hiking up and down the stairs at AllWest or "1000 steps" in gear sucks just as much in jacket as in a backplate.

(And I have a slightly squashed disk so I know what you're talking about.)

 

[drrich2]

Update and follow-ups:

1.) I guess the idea of BP/W using SS or AL sunk into my head enough (I'd heard of Kydex before, though), that I'd kind of settled on the idea. Soft back plate would probably work, but open a new range of options and frankly, my brain is tired. And avoiding the bare metal look effectively rules out SS in favor of anodized aluminum. I haven't gotten into Halcyon, since I'm aiming for things the LDS carries, and I don't know of a Halcyon dealer close. I like mail order fine when I don't need help, but getting this thing rigged the first time, I think I could benefit from help.

2.) I want a wing with a built-in soft STA. Optionally could add OMS product to a wing, but keeping it simple would be preferable.

3.) If BP and wing were same brand, might avoid some awkwardness when things don't match up.

So, I'm considering a Hollis AL BP (better be black), an Elite Harness 2 harness (just keeping on the brand reservation, long as it's on par with competitors), weight pockets & a trim pocket (maybe Hollis), and one of their current generation single tank wings - the S25 LX or S38 LX. Should be tough - from he website "New materials include a 1680D Cordura for the exterior bladder and 420 nylon for the internal bladder. The LX design also includes a 360 degree internal retraction system."

The question becomes, the smaller, in theory more streamlined 25 lbs. lift system, or the 38 lbs. left system? For tropical diving, the latter should be fine. If I dive cold with a big tank & 5-mm wetsuit + hood & gloves, do I need the 38? Here's some historical data to help answer that. Any thoughts?

For local freshwater quarry diving past the 3rd thermocline, dipping down around 90 feet or so, mid. 40s water, wearing 5 mm full wetsuit (Henderson Thermoprene), 7mm hood & boots, 5 mm gloves, with a Sherwood Avid 2XL BCD and practically neutral fins (OMS Slipstream at the time), weights my log shows used with tanks:

1.) An old Worthington 85 cf steel tank, or a rented Faber 100-cf steel tank: 20 lbs. Year 2016.

Per a log entry with the 85 tank:
Did a solo dive wearing an LP 85 steel tank. I put 4 lbs. in each rear trim pocket; used a total of 20 lbs. & still had a decent amount of air in the BCD at the end of the dive, with low PSI remaining, and no trouble getting down.

Per a log entry with the Faber 100-cf steel tank:
Did a solo dive today to test out my new 2XL OMS Slipstream fins, new refurb Cobalt 2 dive computer and Spare Air 3000. Wore the 5 mm Henderson Thermoprene wetsuit, 7/5 mm Henderson 2XL hood, Henderson 5 mm gloves & SeaSoft Stealth 6 mm boots. A few observations:

1.) Tried diving with 14 lbs.; couldn’t even sink.

2.) Then dove with 20 lbs.; 8 lbs. in each ditchable weight pocket & 2 lbs. in each rear trim pocket.

3.) Weighting at least adequate.

4.) Mildly foot-heavy. Next time, put more of the weight in the trim pockets.

2.) An old Worthington (XsScuba brand) 130-cf HP steel tank, 12 lbs. Year 2015.

Dove today to test out my cold tolerance wearing 5 mm full wetsuit, 7/5 mm hood, 5 mm gloves &, new to the ensemble, a pair of 6 mm SeaSoft Stealth scuba boots. Dove with 12 lbs. weight, 2 4 lbs. in detachable pockets, 2 2 lbs. in rear trim pockets, same weight each side despite having the pony bottle setup on my left as usual when I solo here.

I don't see any comment on adequacy of weighting, so I guess it was decent.

I'm probably a few to several lbs. lighter in body weight now.

Richard.

 

[runsongas]

if you end up not buying from LDS (thought your previous post said LDS doesn't carry hollis), maybe call up golem gear about their 35lb donut and an anodized black AL plate too as an option

 

[drrich2]

I checked back with them and asked about Hollis; it wasn't one they mentioned at first, but they indicated they are a Hollis dealer and can get their stuff.

Richard.

 

[dmaziuk]

The LX design also includes a 360 degree internal retraction system."

Removing that was the first thing I did to mine. I don't expect their clever internal retraction system has changed recently: it's just a length of bungee cord around the inside of the shell.

If I dive cold with a big tank & 5-mm wetsuit + hood & gloves, do I need the 38?

I dived in 7 m locally a couple of times (Al80)... But those were 15-20 foot dives, I'm not sure our lakes here are even deep enough to compress the wetsuit to the point where one needs the wing. So I don't worry about 25 lbs being too small. How deep are your local dives?

For Caribbean 25 is plenty of course.

 

[saxman242]

I have the S38LX wing on my set up. When I have ran through the calculations of doing coldwater diving here in California, with a 7mm wet suit, I found I needed ~30 lbs of lift. Having some extra lift margin works just fine for me. I haven't yet used my wing in the Caribbean (headed there in January), but I haven't felt the need to go with anything smaller. The S38 is still fairly compact. I would go the S38 to have the flexibility, and in the future, if you decide you really need a smaller wing, it's easy to add.

Look at it this way, with the S38, you can dive the caribbean just fine. With the S25, you may have to buy a bigger wing to do cold water dives.

The proper thing to do here is to run over to this thread : Buoyancy, Balanced Rigs, Failures and Ditching – a comprehensive tool and use the calculator to figure out what your expected lift requirements in cold water will be.

 

[saxman242]

So, I'm considering a Hollis AL BP (better be black), an Elite Harness 2 harness (just keeping on the brand reservation, long as it's on par with competitors), weight pockets & a trim pocket (maybe Hollis)

The hollis weight pockets are great... and very expensive. I was fortunate to find a used pair for a great price and that's what I have on my set up. If I was paying full price, I'd look elsewhere for their weight pockets. For $160, you can spend your money in a better way. Same with trim pockets. I wouldn't bother paying the premium for trim pockets when you can get something that works great from divegearexpress or similar for a lot less.

 

[drrich2]

A follow-up on the package I selected that 'ticked the boxes,' so to speak. Paid by phone with credit card, it was shipped to the LDS (Water Dogs Scuba & Safety LLC in Clarksville, TN: good place, friendly, helpful staff), and today I went and a staff (Steve) assembled it, putting it on me off and on to adjust this & that (I can see where someone seasoned is very handy to have for this), and so now I've got it. I was given a big package discount, and even with Clarksville's 9% sales tax, it compared well to some online offerings.

Hollis is the brand I went with:

1.) Hollis Black AL back plate.
2.) Hollis Elite 2 Harness.
3.) Hollis S38 LW wing with slots (has built-in soft stabilizers).
4.) Hollis 10 lbs weight system, LX Elite, Solo, Ride, HTS2 (2 pockets, 20 lbs total capacity, quick release buckles).
5.) Hollis Pair of 5-lbs non-ditchable trim pockets to go on cam band.
6.) 1 Hollis Cam Band.
7.) Hollis Crotch Strap (I think there were 2, 1 wide, 1 narrow).

To all that, I added a Dive Right large thigh pocket (for SMB, spare mask, etc...).

After discount, they got it down to $826.79, tax $78.56, grand total $905.35. They listed 'total savings' as $100.60. It compared well to a reputable online vendor's package price, plus it was customized to me in-store.

The 2 book screws that came with it were used to secure the weight pouches to the back plate; I then paid roughly $10 for 2 from the store which were used to secure the wing to the back plate (you can let it rely on the cam band being threaded through the wing slots, but I liked the idea of things 'bolted down').

So you could call it about $915.

Rather than get into trying to transfer my old Air2 to it, I then bought an octo. hose and had them put the 2nd stage from a regulator I hardly ever use on that, so now I'm back to a traditional octopus setup. Seemed simpler.

It'll be some time before I'm likely to dive it, but looking forward to it.

Richard.

P.S.: Thanks all, for all your help. Couldn't have made it to the point of making this decision without you.

 

[Marie13]

Why did you buy only ONE cam band?

 

[runsongas]

that is like halcyon eclipse money.

CP all day and twice on sunday to me