MSilvia
Contributor
In practical application, I've learned a tremendous amount on message boards. YMMV.ScubaNorth:
Missing diver off Scituate
- Thread starter jchaplain
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Rick L
Guest
Wow
To make a fellow diver a bad diver without knowing what happened!!
I could be bad air or a medical condition?
It may not have made any differance if he had a buddy or not!
lets wait to see if they find his body to point any fingers!!!!!!!!
Rick L
To make a fellow diver a bad diver without knowing what happened!!
I could be bad air or a medical condition?
It may not have made any differance if he had a buddy or not!
lets wait to see if they find his body to point any fingers!!!!!!!!
Rick L
MASS-Diver
Contributor
I have done plenty of dumb things. A few years ago I posted on here about a solo dive in which I managed to get my hand really stuck under a rock and the panic which followed. I've done the Pinthis at night, in a storm, with a single 80. But, I try to learn from others, I train, I read up other approaches, and I spend the cash to have nice gear - which can be tough to do when you have a wife that loves jewlery and you have thing for expensive handguns. But, most of all, I have respect for the fact that we are diving in harsh conditions.
Heck, I have to come here and read people saying that swimming 2 miles is no big deal! Give me a break!
The last time I was on the Poling a guy punched out from 90'! We may not have the deaths that they have down in the caves in FL, but I personally have seen tons of close calls on shallow rec depth dives! Most of these people have a few close calls and get out the sport, but still it's scary out there.
I don't go around confronting people as I'm certainly not the world's greatest diver and about a newbie of tech diver as you can get, but in my mind whenever I see these goofy rigs with all this tangly crap - I think to myself that this guy is clueless.
In the case of this accident, I very clearly feel strongly about the practice of playing blind follow the leader in the open ocean (a running boat following a diver's bubbles). IMO, even if the diver in this case died of a non-diving related medical cause, the fact that he a planned a dive this way says all I need to know about his approach to this sport. If I do a 200' dive next with a single hp 100 and have a non-diving related stroke half up, I would expect that people would think that I was a crappy diver.
I'm just so sick of seeing of the dumb crap out there. This is cold, dark water and people don't treat it like it's a big deal. The death on the Poling a few years ago and the solo diving death off either back beach or folly when the guy was found wrapped up in lobster geat come to mind.
If you mess up down there you are going to die about as horrible as a death as there is and your family is going to greatly affected forever.
Heck, I have to come here and read people saying that swimming 2 miles is no big deal! Give me a break!
The last time I was on the Poling a guy punched out from 90'! We may not have the deaths that they have down in the caves in FL, but I personally have seen tons of close calls on shallow rec depth dives! Most of these people have a few close calls and get out the sport, but still it's scary out there.
I don't go around confronting people as I'm certainly not the world's greatest diver and about a newbie of tech diver as you can get, but in my mind whenever I see these goofy rigs with all this tangly crap - I think to myself that this guy is clueless.
In the case of this accident, I very clearly feel strongly about the practice of playing blind follow the leader in the open ocean (a running boat following a diver's bubbles). IMO, even if the diver in this case died of a non-diving related medical cause, the fact that he a planned a dive this way says all I need to know about his approach to this sport. If I do a 200' dive next with a single hp 100 and have a non-diving related stroke half up, I would expect that people would think that I was a crappy diver.
I'm just so sick of seeing of the dumb crap out there. This is cold, dark water and people don't treat it like it's a big deal. The death on the Poling a few years ago and the solo diving death off either back beach or folly when the guy was found wrapped up in lobster geat come to mind.
If you mess up down there you are going to die about as horrible as a death as there is and your family is going to greatly affected forever.
Charlie99
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MASS-Diver, there is nothing inherently wrong with having a boat follow the flag he was towing. Have you never heard of drift diving?
It was a solo dive. The diver had unknown problems. That's all we know. Whether he was diving from shore, an anchored boat, or a live boat doesn't seem, to me at least, to have any relevance.
It was a solo dive. The diver had unknown problems. That's all we know. Whether he was diving from shore, an anchored boat, or a live boat doesn't seem, to me at least, to have any relevance.
paulthenurse
Contributor
Disclaimer: I'ts 2:15 AM and I've been drinking.
John,
I don't understand the anger you are bringing to this discussion. You are pretty clearly pissed off at this guy because he did something htat you figure was dumb and caused his own death. Whilw I've never met any of parties involvded in the accicident, I feel pretty secure in my assumption that he didn't intend to die when he jumped of the back of the boat. He F'ed up. He died. Brown stuff happens. It happens all the time, every day of the week, in any sort of activity you can name, sport or work or whatever.
You seem to have lost sight of the real issue here. One of us has had a terrible accident and died. You just referenced an incident where you had a problem underwater wiht a hand stuck uneer a rock. What if you didn't manage to get your hand freed in the 10 minutes of air you had remaining? How would your family feel if someone was raging on about what a *******ed up diver you were as they were searching for your body.
Post accident anaylisis is important. It's how we learn and prevent more acciodents. We're all in this for fun. None of us do tjhis for a living. We do it because we love it. Perhaps he wasn't as fortunate as you and wasn't able to afford teh best gear and the best training. He had a choice, dive with the trainig and equipment he had or not dive at all. I know what I'd choose.
Belittling an unfortunate fellow who payed the price for his mistake doesn't do anything to advance the discussion or teach anyone anything. Standing on the overturned dirt of his grave spouting off about how he f'ed up and was a stroke ain't right.
John,
I don't understand the anger you are bringing to this discussion. You are pretty clearly pissed off at this guy because he did something htat you figure was dumb and caused his own death. Whilw I've never met any of parties involvded in the accicident, I feel pretty secure in my assumption that he didn't intend to die when he jumped of the back of the boat. He F'ed up. He died. Brown stuff happens. It happens all the time, every day of the week, in any sort of activity you can name, sport or work or whatever.
You seem to have lost sight of the real issue here. One of us has had a terrible accident and died. You just referenced an incident where you had a problem underwater wiht a hand stuck uneer a rock. What if you didn't manage to get your hand freed in the 10 minutes of air you had remaining? How would your family feel if someone was raging on about what a *******ed up diver you were as they were searching for your body.
Post accident anaylisis is important. It's how we learn and prevent more acciodents. We're all in this for fun. None of us do tjhis for a living. We do it because we love it. Perhaps he wasn't as fortunate as you and wasn't able to afford teh best gear and the best training. He had a choice, dive with the trainig and equipment he had or not dive at all. I know what I'd choose.
Belittling an unfortunate fellow who payed the price for his mistake doesn't do anything to advance the discussion or teach anyone anything. Standing on the overturned dirt of his grave spouting off about how he f'ed up and was a stroke ain't right.
LobstaMan
Guest
Me too, Matt. I've always said that you learn more from your failures than you do from your triumphs, but it's easier to learn from the mistakes of others. If someone screws up, posts the scenario on this board and you learn something from it to help you in future dives, that's great. Or if they have a great new idea to share, even better. Experience is a great teacher whether it's your experience or someone else's or a negative or positive one.
As far as this particular diving death is concerned, we don't know enough info as of yet to speculate on how and why he died. And we might never know since he and his gear are still on the bottom. In general though, analysis has shown that you usuallly can't point to one single factor as an accident's sole cause, it's usually multiple factors that contribute to the accident.
LobstaMan
MASS-Diver
Contributor
A drift dive, by defination implies drifting. Having dove in this exact area many times I would judge it as a very poor site for such diving. 1.) There is no predictable current in this area, it can change day-day, hour to hour, it's not a simple tidal flow - there fore you can't "drift" here. 2.) At this time of year, there is heavy boat traffic in this area, it is illegal (and confusing for anyone to see) for a boat to be underway while flying a dive flag, instead the boat follows a tiny dive flag accross and unpredictable path through the open ocean. It's unsafe and not acceptable in this area. And, there is no reason for it, except it's easier on lazy divers.
The crap can hit the fan at any time on any dive, but when the very dive plan itself is unsound that's a differenent issue.
It's easy to come on here and post about what a tragedy this was and that it was probably just a random accident that could of struck any of down at any time, it takes guts to come on point out some of the unsafe crap that is going on every weekend around here.
It upsets me very much when divers (espically in my own backyard) die. Does it make me mad? Yes! I feel strongly that the last few deaths here in the past few years can be attributed to poor training, weak gear, and the wrong attitude, this one seems like it will fall into the category as well.
Again, my point is that this dive plan: a solo "drift" dive in this area using the blind follow the leader protcol is an inherently unsafe practice, regardless of the ultimate cause of this accident.
Lastly, I hate to even post stuff like this but, I talked to a buddy of mine that is a full time lobsterman out of Cohasset: he said that a number of the fisherman are yelling shark about to this disappearance. I guess some guys have been seeing some Big sharks in this area the past few weeks. I think it's BS - but just wanted to post what the word on the street is.....
Sorry to all those offended by my posts (and thanks for the sweet PMs), I swear I'm only about 1/2 as big of a jerk as I have come off here.
Scott5644
Contributor
Is this your opinion, or has some LEGAL authority stated so?
Hey if he did have a problem and he knew about it or even if he didn't have a medical problem, would you rather go out the way he did doing something he loved to do, or go out of this world laying in some hospital room?
With all due respect Mass Diver, if this accident upsets you that much then you shouldn't be diving. Diving has risks just like skiing and many other sports, and sometimes **** happens to the best of us. This person was diving in 20 feet of water. In better vis, this would have been a free dive. In 20FSW your scuba bailout plan is to swim to the surface. If you have your hand caught under a rock, then you should have gobs of time to figure it out - I can get 90+ minutes out of an 80 at that depth. This person didn't get run over by a boat, didn't get "lost" and drift away into the fog to die a slow death, didn't get their hand caught under a rock, and most likely didn't have an equipment malfunction because they could have made it to the surface. Honestly, how much training, excellent gear and attitude are you required to have to do a 20 frigging foot dive?
Save this argument for when it really applies.
Save this argument for when it really applies.
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