Merged: Liability Releases - shop sued diver's death, Catalina Island 2005

[Scubagolf]

If anyone cares to read the full Court of Appeal opinion, it is attached.

 

[pjones]

unbelievable...

Friedman said Huverserian, 45, was in good shape and an experienced diver.

He said the gauge that Catalina Scuba Luv gave him ran high, there wasn't enough air in the rental tank and he was given too much weight for the dive.

If the SPG was not Zero than it should have been caught in the pre dive check. If it shows zero pre-presurization but was out of calibration than it is still going to show zero based on a linear scale as the pressure reduces. It seems to me that for an "Experienced Diver" that this should have been caught throughout the dive as he was looking at his gauge. If he noticed the pressures were dropping quicker than typical than he should know to be keeping a closer eye on his gauges.

As well, if he was an experienced diver than I would expect him to be able to determine for himself if he was over weighted. If it wasn't something that he could adjust than he should have expected his gas to deplete quicker. I would expect a dive shop to supply me with extra weights when renting just in case I needed to add an extra layer or other such reason. I would never feel obligated to use it all though..

Although this is a hard case to critique anywhere past my immediate reaction to the information provided considering they leave out important information such as how much air was in the tank to start and by how much the gauges were out of calibration by. For that reason my one sided take on this one sided view is only just that. I can't lay blame, hate or judgment without all the facts, Only my immediate thoughts.


Word of caution ZKY. Your backplate is very comfortable, so much so that it could cause people to fall asleep while under water. This could potentially cause a "Choking Hazard". You may want to consider stamping this warning on your Backplates in the future just to cover your...well... :mooner:

 

[CaliJoe]

When did we decide as a society to reward the stupidity of others? Why is it that when someone we love dies or is injured of accidental causes we always try to pawn off blame to some other party rather than coming to the realization that perhaps it was our loved one who was at fault? Have we become so vain as to be unable to accept that we are associated by blood to someone who could be so incredibly stupid?

When I was growing up, if I trip and fall over someone's toy or a neighbor's cracked sidewalk or driveway I was blamed for not paying attention to where I was walking. If I ended up scraped because of the ensuing fall I received a stern reminder from my parents to be more mindful of what I was doing. That was parenting. But now people have become so vain that they cannot accept giving birth to a child so unbelievably dense that should the same child get hurt then it must have been the unmoving sidewalk's fault or perhaps the crack in the driveway had some form of cloaking device to trap "unwary" children.

This same coddling gets carried into adulthood and the child now a "responsible" adult is left to think that no act of his/her, no matter how stupid, is their fault.

 

[CaliJoe]

Perhaps we should make lawyers equally liable for the consequences of the outcome. That is to say that if their client loses their case their lawyers get to bear an equal share of the financial burden their clients have to bear.

Regarding the rewards sought in these wrongful death cases the reversal of the awards should be automatic; i.e. if the plaintiff loses their case the awards they sought should now be payed by them and their lawyers to the defendants without the defendants having to file a counter suit.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Perhaps we should make lawyers equally liable for the consequences of the outcome. That is to say that if their client loses their case their lawyers get to bear an equal share of the financial burden their clients have to bear.

Regarding the rewards sought in these wrongful death cases the reversal of the awards should be automatic; i.e. if the plaintiff loses their case the awards they sought should now be payed by them and their lawyers to the defendants without the defendants having to file a counter suit.

I understand your feelings on this but disagree with the solution. Wildly swinging pendulums will not bring balance to the justice system. Creating a system where lawyers are too afraid to take on cases for fear of excessive penalties could create a system in which people would not be able to hire representation for just and reasonable claims!

I admit I would love to see a system where the lawyer's fees would be forfeit and a client could be fined if a case was found to be so ridiculous and frivolous that is judged to be a waste of court time. It would be wonderful if there was a system in place where the merits of law suits could be examined by unbiased people before they were allowed to take court time.

Some of this case seems ridiculous on the surface but if the following were proven:

1) SPG fault was proven to be significant enough
2) the Operator could not provide proof of adequate maintenance
3) the stress of the OOA emergencies could be shown to have contributed to the heart attack

I would have to find the Operator to share some blame with the deceased. I just don't see enough information here to either validate or shout down this case!

 

[DandyDon]

Yeah, it is ridiculous at the core. I can see both sides of the issue with some validity, but it still sucks. I've dived with that Op - nice folks, good op.

IMHO the court ruled correctly, the release form was faulty. So now they get to fight it out.

Sadly true. It is the court's responsibility to uphold the letter of the law at that step, not decide the case even tho it was not the op's fault that he had the heart attack and died.

Sure the release is wrong, but that doesn't mean the family aren't eejits for suing the dive op.

I hope if I ever die when diving due to something stupid I've done my family does not sue someone else for my own mistakes.

Do you have a standing requests letter with your family? I do, copy posted in the If I die sticky on A&I.

They should hang all these lawyers....

The family deserves to be served by a competent lawyer, and the lawyer has the responsibility of serving his client. I don't agree with the actions of the family, but I'm only reacting to a news story, not the whole one not available to us.

I would have caught a gauge that didn't show zero as part of my normal pre-dive routine. My pre-dive check is less elaborate than what many here profess to do, but it does include checking the gauge before and after pressurizing the regulator and while taking a few breaths off of it.

Truly...!

He said the gauge that Catalina Scuba Luv gave him ran high: If the gauge doesn't zero out or operate correctly, don't dive it. Exchange!

there wasn't enough air in the rental tank: The tank shack is right there in the parking lot; exchange it!

and he was given too much weight for the dive: Good that they gave a surplus, but deciding how much to dive is the divers responsibility!​

The problem is that litigation has become a huge industry worth billions of dollars.
People have made vast fortunes on nothing more than parasitic exploits.
They serve no other purpose but to bleed society of it's life blood and produce nothing of real value.

Yeah, surely the lawyer knows he can't win this and is just harassing the insurance company in hopes of an out of court settlement.

He ran out of air--reason immaterial. He and his son made a normal ascent using son's octo, AS THEY WERE TRAINED TO DO. AFTER the dive he had the heart attack. I predict (I know I shouldn't do this but I just can't help myself) that the family will lose the lawsuit. I know, based on the facts presented here, that I would vote against the family were I on the jury.

I just don't see anything but diver error here really, complicated by a medical condition.

 

[dkktsunami]

Well, the ruling seems overly picayune, but that's what lawyers do, isn't it? The lawyer that wrote the waiver should probably consult his lawyer. More ridiculous than the decision was this:


He gave him too much weight? So the responsibility for proper weighting has shifted to the guy in the rental shack?!

This is California - everything that goes wrong has to be the fault of someone else.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Personal responsibility is slowly becoming extinct. And lawyers are a big part of that. They tell people that they can get big payouts when the reality is the person was just stupid. I just got castigated for using the term "two bit shyster" in another thread. Sometimes you just cannot find a better description. The landshark that took advantage of my dad when my mom was murdered by a drunk driver convinced him to settle for what the insurance company offered. Turns out he was close to retiring and wanted a quick payout of his fee. I have had good lawyers that I hired for legitimate reasons. The ones who take cases based on the stupidity of people are not good. If a boatload of them were to sink what would you call it? I'd say a good start.

 

[burna]

I don't agree with the actions of the family, but I'm only reacting to a news story, not the whole one not available to us.

(My bolding)

That's it in a nutshell I think.
Looks like a job for Judge Judy!

 

[Doc]

Darwin subverted.