How to explain Liability to boat owner (in simple examples)?

[Superlyte27]

Captain absolutely needs insurance. He is not covered right now. If he’s named in a lawsuit he has to defend himself. He can do that on my dime or on his.

It would be cheaper for him (whether he is at fault or not) to do it on the insurance company’s dime.

He can call me if he likes. I am a technical dive instructor, a former 100 ton boat captain and a top 50 in the country insurance agency.

 

[Esprise Me]

its not so much the captain but the owner, and not so much that he wont be sued but that he can "fend off" the lawsuit by hiring a lawyer and showing the disclaimer for a lot cheaper than the additional premium per year.

Well, he might not be wrong about that, at least some of the time. But that waiver might not hold up in every jurisdiction and every circumstance. He's gambling, and he's putting you and his other partners at risk by doing so. You might just have to make the insurance a condition of doing business with him.

 

[Zeke XA3]

Captain absolutely needs insurance. He is not covered right now. If he’s named in a lawsuit he has to defend himself. He can do that on my dime or on his.

It would be cheaper for him (whether he is at fault or not) to do it on the insurance company’s dime.

He can call me if he likes. I am a technical dive instructor, a former 100 ton boat captain and a top 50 in the country insurance agency.

This is for a potential addition to an existing program, the vessel has full liability insurance.

So when you say the Captain needs insurance do you mean the vessel or the captain as a person should have his own additional insurance policy? No crew on any vessel ive been on (as crew or captain ) has had private insurance and we have always come under the vessels as we have contracts with said vessel. Diving seems to be one of the exceptions whereby the individual, has a separate professional insurance policy. Onlcy Captain's i personally know with personal insurance are delivery captains.

 

[Zeke XA3]

Well, he might not be wrong about that, at least some of the time. But that waiver might not hold up in every jurisdiction and every circumstance. He's gambling, and he's putting you and his other partners at risk by doing so. You might just have to make the insurance a condition of doing business with him.

Reading through the last few years including here on SB, i dont put much faith in the waiver at all, i know what it is supposed to do but i view the waiver as a "tick box" so that if something did go wrong my agency would help me.

 

[Superlyte27]

This is for a potential addition to an existing program, the vessel has full liability insurance.

So when you say the Captain needs insurance do you mean the vessel or the captain as a person should have his own additional insurance policy? No crew on any vessel ive been on (as crew or captain ) has had private insurance and we have always come under the vessels as we have contracts with said vessel. Diving seems to be one of the exceptions whereby the individual, has a separate professional insurance policy. Onlcy Captain's i personally know with personal insurance are delivery captains.

I misspoke. I meant the owner. But the captain will be sued too.

Waivers are mostly garbage, but even if they were fantastic, you still have to defend yourself in court, waiver or not. That’s about $500/hour.

My last court case had 13 defendants. That was 13 lawyers in deposition. That was $500/hour x 13 for a case that settled in the first 2 years.

He needs a policy that doesn’t exclude scuba.

 

[rjack321]

I misspoke. I meant the owner. But the captain will be sued too.

Waivers are mostly garbage, but even if they were fantastic, you still have to defend yourself in court, waiver or not. That’s about $500/hour.

My last court case had 13 defendants. That was 13 lawyers in deposition. That was $500/hour x 13 for a case that settled in the first 2 years.

He needs a policy that doesn’t exclude scuba.

It sounds like the owner is totally loaded with cash and can afford the rare defense case. $5k in legal fees once every decade or two might actually be cheaper than an in-water scuba rider on his insurance year after year. Assuming he wins those cases or wins summary judgment.

 

[Wookie]

It sounds like the owner is totally loaded with cash and can afford the rare defense case. $5k in legal fees once every decade or two might actually be cheaper than an in-water scuba rider on his insurance year after year. Assuming he wins those cases or wins summary judgment.

$5k? One insurance company spent 25 grand last week on their defense in the Stewart case. No idea how much Horizon, Sotis, or any of the rest of the defendant’s insurance companies spent. They haven’t spent a million yet, but they will if it goes to trial.

 

[Barnaby'sDad]

$5k? One insurance company spent 25 grand last week on their defense in the Stewart case. No idea how much Horizon, Sotis, or any of the rest of the defendant’s insurance companies spent. They haven’t spent a million yet, but they will if it goes to trial.

No kidding. $5k isn’t even going to cover the retainer.

Unless the guy the OP is talking with has Warren Buffet money (he can afford to have a dumpster fire with $20 bills), he’s delusional and/or he has no concept of what it costs to hire an attorney and deal with a contested case.

 

[lowwall]

Maybe put it this way. Does he really think an insurance company won't take the SCUBA exclusion as far as possible to avoid paying claims? For example, what if a diver slips on the deck and is injured falling into the water? Or a diver ignores instructions and is injured jumping off the stern while the boat is reversing?

If the insurance company bows out, the owner gets to pay for his liability defense and any awards and then gets to decide whether to pay the costs of suing the insurance company in an attempt to get reimbursement.

 

[Zeke XA3]

Im going along the lines of,

Once a diver has put on dive gear, regardless of the accident, slip/trip/fall etc our current carrier would be able to say they do not cover us and you would have to pay all fees/expenses out of pocket. If we did have an in water situation, regardless of fault it will take a lawyer with the waivers as evidence to present your case, simply presenting the waiver would not "cancel" any litigation, again all paid out of your pocket.

I understand that you are weighing the financial implications of this and you would need to balance the cost of the annual insurance premium versus court and medical costs. A recent local case had a company liable for 9 million due to not understanding the scope of the legal system even though it was in doubt that they were at fault and a single hyperbaric treatment schedule can cost in excess of $10,000 with costs increasing if the patient suffered any complicating injury.

On a side note, some of you are right, these people are crazy. Many have teams of lawyers working for their companies that they wont hesitate to get involved. Others get an expensive lawyer to settle up front away from court to keep their names out of any legal papers and sometimes, just sometime we get normal people who understand accidents happen and we sit down and settle it like adults.