Maui County Delivers Final Blow

[KrisB]

Part of me wants to ignore what you just said Kris and I probably should but you know what? I'm kind of in defensive mode right now. I really must know...Why do you hate me Kris? Why do you like to 'push my buttons' so much? (Who else has noticed this?) Is it just your nature and you just can't help yourself? What is it?

Doug... I'm not sure if you recall, but I did send you a message asking to go for a beer sometime before I left Maui -- I think that was 6-8 weeks ago. Over the last year or so, I have been trying to let bygones be bygones until your most recent attacks against me here.

As you know -- my issue with you started with two photos -- one of the monk seal interaction (without an environmental responsibility warning) and the one on your web site of you with baskets full of lobster, advertising your "bug hunt" dives. I don't believe either of those to represent responsible actions -- at least not around Maui.

As far as I know, there are no other dive instructors/dive masters or dive shop owners here on Maui who talk to me or about me like you do. You never even went on a dive with me or got to know me other than a quick one or two sentence 'how ya doin?' 'Conditions are good' at the beach. Just because you don't like my website or something else about me you really have no idea who I am and it's uncool that you keep saying things like this.

See above -- my request to meet in a social setting where we could talk about this was ignored.

As far as these rules go...It's not just me, it's many CORA businesses that will suffer, it's all the trickle down money that will no longer trickle down through our local economy. It's the future dive instructors who will never have the chance that I had. I have twenty-six years invested in SCUBA. Twelve here on Maui and I followed all their rules all along. I put a lot of smiles on a lot of faces and stimulated my communities economic growth by my own actions. Now they are doing this and it's not right. They are also jeopardizing peoples safety and that is unacceptable to me.

That's fine, Doug. I'm not advocating for these rules. My comment was based around the fact that you slammed my method of doing things as I was not allowed to do things "right" because permits are not being issued to new applicants. I'm not the only one in this boat... there are many of us instructors that have people that want us to teach them to dive, because they know us, or we've put a favourable spin on diving (even after a bad experience with another operator), yet we're not allowed to even accept a token of their gratitude thanks to the County rules.

Now that the tables are turned, you're looking to do exactly what I was doing -- finding a loophole.

When a foreign hoale boy like you comes to these islands and starts telling the locals how they should run things it is not always welcomed. When you go around undercutting established business professionals by saying you will offer services for free, (but a tip would be accepted and appreciated but not necessary, *wink*), you are stepping on toes. When you used the county beach parks to teach your free lessons you were perceived by the general public as a CORA operator even though you are not and you contribute to the perception that our beaches are overcrowded and being taken over by CORA and that does not help us legal CORA people at all.

I think you'd find, Doug, that among anyone using the beach parks for lessons, I'm among the least intrusive. Minimal space occupied in gear up, always moving out of the way at the showers when others came along and there wasn't enough space, and exceptionally small classes.

I think you'd find more complaint with the way the BSA groups were using the beach a couple times each year.

Honestly -- I would have LOVED to go the County offices, picked up a permit and been 100% in the same boat as you. I would have paid several hundred dollars for that privilege! But neither me, nor another half-dozen instructors *I* am aware of were/are able to do that.

There was MORE than enough business to go around... the people I was teaching would almost certainly not have paid another op the advertised prices for those services. In reality, it is the same protectionist attitude presented by those who didn't like what I was doing that has been amplified and found their way into Tavares' mindset.

Just as you don't appreciate that the County is forcing you out of business, neither do newcomers (i.e. anyone in the last 7 years, according to Tim) appreciate that the County has never let them INTO business.

 

[KissMyCORA]

Well, I just read the entire CORA. Took almost as long as reading the proposed Health Care Bill. I have to say that they left out a few very important details. They mentioned nothing about CORA 'permitees', 'instructors' or 'patrons' urination and/or defecation policies.

As I read through this document, I couldn't help but laugh at the all the finer points that were covered. These guys sat around trying to find anything and everything to make this process a pain in the Tavares!

This marks the birth of the Maui Scuba Underground. More details to come...

 

[KrisB]

They mentioned nothing about CORA 'permitees', 'instructors' or 'patrons' urination and/or defecation policies.

That is also very strange, isn't it?

Compare issues going on here: Kelvin Grove Officially Off Limits - ScubaBoard

 

[KissMyCORA]

So does the person's name who is responsible for this Kelvin Grove issue start with 'T' and end with 'avares'?

I can understand something like that happening in Canada....but not in the UNITED STATES of AMERICA even if we're talking about a 3rd World County.

Then again, we are in a time of 'change and uncertainty' in America.

As long as I can keep diving....they can all kiss my Tavares!

 

[KrisB]

So does the person's name who is responsible for this Kelvin Grove issue start with 'T' and end with 'avares'?

I can understand something like that happening in Canada....but not in the UNITED STATES of AMERICA even if we're talking about a 3rd World County.

Then again, we are in a time of 'change and uncertainty' in America.

As long as I can keep diving....they can all kiss my Tavares!

Actually, it's more likely to happen in the US -- as you can see from the discussion on the other thread, there are several levels of gov't regs that prevent this sort of thing from being enforceable.

Unfortunately, unless you can get the State or Fed gov't to overrule Tavares (probably not what some people want given the protectionist view that many existing providers have), you're stuck. The best you can hope for is getting a county gov't in place next November that cares enough to change this... probably too late by then, though.

 

[KissMyCORA]

Can someone please clarify this for me? Does the CORA apply to me if I am giving a free lesson to a family member or friend while utilizing "County beach parks or other properties under the control of the department of parks and recreation"?

In Subchapter 1 General Provisions, this is the definition of 'Business': ""Business" means any commercial enterprise or establishments, including, but not limited to, sole proprietorships, joint ventures, partnerships, corporations, fraternal organizations, clubs, unorganized associations, or any other legally cognizable entity, whether for profit or not for profit, and includes all employees of the business or any independent contractors associated with the business."

Is 'cognizable' a word or is that a typo for recognizable? Anyway...'business' seems to be a pretty general term in this context.

Can I teach my family and friends for free or not??

 

[kidspot]

...But the law did not list any limits on permits to say, so how do you know how many they will issue?

I was just looking at the chart listing the beaches and number of permits allowed per beach ... course I could be reading it wrong, but the number of permits added up to 30. They mention being able to increase that numer in the future, but that does not help in the "here and now"

 

[ItsBruce]

A few comments:

Why does the list of "holidays" include Christmas Day, but none of the Jewish Holidays or those of any other religion?

As far as the definition of "business," it means: "any commercial enterprise or establishments." The "including but not limited to" clause does not change the definition. The clause only eliminates the opportunity to call a commercial enterprise a "club" to circumvent the ordinance. If it is not commercial, it is not covered.

The insurance requirement demonstrates that the drafters of the ordinance do not understand insurance policy drafting. The ordinance says nothing about deductibles or exclusions. While it is clear the County wants to protect itself, it is like requiring automobile insurance and then allowing the driver to get insurance with a void-on-impact clause.

After reviewing the whole ordinance, my guess is that the County is trying to keep parks and beaches from being overrun with CORAs at the expense of others who wish to use them and to ensure that any CORAs meet certain minimum standards. While the scuba industry has certification requirements, there is really nothing to prohibit me from calling myself a dive instructor and giving dive lessons. My guess is that something happened to cause the County to consider there to be some problem that it had to control.

Some of you may recall an incident, I believe in the Maldives, where guests on a live aboard got bad air fills ... Everyone yelled that the government had to regulate dive operators to ensure safe air ... What happened in Maui that triggered this?

 

[Shaka Doug]

Doug, I mean no offense here, just trying to express the other point of view.

But have you thought that maybe the operators are the ones responsible for the new rules? My wife and I have been to Maui twice, both times we have seen your "bus". We have also noticed surf operations, and to be frank, some are a little rude to residence.

2 things come to mind. First, we saw a surf shop start a surf lesson on a beach. They parked in the loading zone, dragged all there gear through the grass and bushes. Left the vehicle parked in the loading area. Then setup right next to a group of sun bathers "because this is the spot we always use" and made them move. If I was a sun bather that was just relaxing and was pushed out by some surf shop on a public beach I would have been upset.

Second instance was a dive op, they spent nearly 30 minutes at a public beach shower rinsing off gear. They took up 3 of the 4 showers and a line was forming for beach goers to just rinse off there feet. Again there where some pissed off people.

I have also over heard some negative comments about your very loud scuba bus. None divers and residence find it a bit obtrusive.

I also don't understand why this will put you out of business all together. All you need to do is get a permit and follow the rules. They did not mention permit fees and how many permits they are going to allow. Have you found any of that out?

Law makers don't typically wake up and see who they are going to screw today. They normally do something when they get a good amount of complaints. But by no means am I defending law makers, they also come up with ways of screwing everyone as well. I live in NY, I know all about fees, taxes, and a general butt ramming by the gov.

Thank you for your comments. I'm not sure what you might mean by very loud scuba bus though. The exhaust did explode one day at Ulua Parking lot and that was really loud but it was only one occassion as I drove up the hill to get home. My stereo does bump pretty good but I cruise the streets playing my music at levels that are far below what many of the 'lowrider' cars do. My bus may be big and look really big but the fact of the matter is it's a standard Ford Econoline E350 Van chassis and it fits in a regular parking spot. There are other folks around here that go to the beach parks with large dually or 4WD pickup trucks that are much larger than my busses footprint.

As far as rude surf operators go, well, there are a lot of people involved here. Some care more than others. Some have more or less respect for other beach users than others. We do have rules in place already and if a particular operator is being a jerk than he can and should be reported and dealt with appropriately by the enforcement officer. (I have never seen an enforcement officer enforce anything yet!) I would not tolerate an operator being rude to other beach goers as you described. It is wrong for him to do that. Perhaps it is the guys like that who put us here. Who is it? I'll go have a talk with him.

If dive ops are hogging up showers they can also be reprimanded. Who was it? I will go have a talk with them too. As it stands, we are not allowed to wash our gear in the shower. We are only allowed to take a personal rinse, we can do it with our equipment on but we aren't supposed to disassemble and do a thorough rinse on site. I am always aware that our presence is highly visible and I do my best to be fair and considerate with sharing parking, loading, showers, beach space, etc.

I have a permit. I've had one since 1998. The fee went from $50 / year for every beach park on the island to $250 per year for every beach park (with no advanced notice I might add) to $500 per year for three beach parks plus $100 per extra park. Now it's $100 for permit and $500 per beach park but you're limited to the same or less parks than you had previously. No new permits have been issued for years. That's a huge problem for guys like Kris, Mark and other independent instructors who would like to teach a class here and there and be in compliance. That's one of the reasons I'm fighting this...for those guys and the ones who aren't even here yet.

The new rules will not put me out of business in one day. They will slowly strangle me and many other operators. By limiting my locations and hours I am forced to make my living in an even shorter amount of time than I have now. I aready have to cancel on average, 4 to 5 days a month due to south swell. Now when the water is good, I dive. I offer my services 7 days a week. I don't usually dive all 7 but the option has always been there and it has worked for me. My schedule is flexible which is good for me and my guests. Now if the water is nice on the holiday or weekend I may not be able to get in. We can easily get a whole week that is washed out. If it gets nice during the allowed hours I will be dealing with larger crowds and competition for parking / shore access / etc. With the limited locatons I am losing my safety options. It could be beautiful conditions at one location but I can't access it because of the rules. If I can only access the poor condition site I may only do one dive instead of two that day (reducing my income). Maybe I cancel all together (losing a days pay plus everything that comes with that. It costs money to acquire new customers. If I advertise and get to the site and then cancel I may never see any return on that investment, instead it is factored in as a loss.) Things like that hurt future earning potential too. Maybe the clients will never come back to Maui. They will never go back home and tell their friends what a good time they had. They may actually leave Maui and say the diving was lousy, or could have been much better, and what good does that do us?

If this happens over and over I will make less and less. Eventually it just may not cover the bills. In business one of the goals is typically to grow. I have been trying to grow and they keep pruning me back every time I get a little ahead. The rules are necessary. But the rules they wrote are not anything like the rules I would have wrote. They are restrictive. They are there to contribute to the attrition rate of the CORA. Council Member Mike Victorino came right out in a meeting I attended a couple of years ago and told us pointblank that they were going to put some of us out of business. Well, here you go...the beginning of the end....

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

We do have rules in place already and if a particular operator is being a jerk than he can and should be reported and dealt with appropriately by the enforcement officer. (I have never seen an enforcement officer enforce anything yet!)

Here's the real rub; none of the previous incarnations of regulations have ever been enforced, at least with regards to scuba. I tried to get that across when I was participating in the previous administrations hearings. The board members in attendance that day had various non-responses while I was speaking; yawing, shooing flies, tying shoes, looking at watches, flipping through appointment books. After I was done speaking none of them even looked me in the eye.

Mr. Victorino summed the current administration's playbook recently while discussing another Beach Park issue. The County of Maui recently made it illegal to consume alcoholic beverages at Charlie Young Beach Park, truly because of a few rowdy volleyball players.

There are already laws against public drunkenness and disturbing the peace, which if enforced would have made this a non-issue. Mr. Victorino stated that he hated to punish law abiding folk who have been enjoying adult beverages responsibly at this beach for decades, BUT since there are only 4 patrol officers for South Maui the perps are gone before the cops arrive.

That's right, the council chair said since there is no enforcement we are passing stricter laws that punish only those that follow the law! There are still only 4 patrol officers for South Maui so what was actually accomplished?

We never found out if the previous two sets of regulations worked because they were never enforced. The new ones will not likely see much enforcement especially due budget cuts, but reduction in CORA operations will happen because of the punished law abiding entities.