Mares X Vision Mask

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I like the X-vision, have two, black and clear, the wife took the clear one. They are doing fine, the black one has a few dives on it. I see no issues with it not typical of modern split lense bug eye masks. They hold water in the dropped lense pocket and they are comfortable and easy to live with, they make you look like an alien creature, positives and negatives. Many masks in the past had rubber attach, have several including an oval from the late 50s and I dive it often, it has not torn out. I like the minimal approach of the X-vision, the soft skirt and low volume. It is nicely priced too, heck, buy two.
N
 
DIVERBOUY SAID
"Also while you are at it, ask them about the Dacor Darwin hoseless computer, and how any one of their customers who bought their hottest selling computer in their history can get a transducer replacement. That ought to be a great story too.

I know Larry and Phil have replied to this, but let me as a former rep for Mares/Dacor who actually now reps their competetion....."There NEVER was a hoseless DARWIN, so if you are looking for a hoseless transmitter you are very out of luck.

There are two main versions of the Darwin, One the Darwin (does not show tank pressure) which can be wrist or in a console with a analog SPG which has a hose. The other is the Darwin Air which has digital pressure.

In Europe you can get the plain Darwin with either RGBM or Hal. alogrythms, The DarwinAir has RGBM.

You are really barking up the wrong tree here, Larry and Phil were nice and didn't point out that what you claim is impossible but I will and just did.
 
DiverBuoy:
The #1 mask style returned to the 5 shops I've worked for are designs where the hard clips attach to the silicon directly. Typically the explanation is the mask got hot sitting in the back of a car or exposed to the sun for too long when they stretched it over their face the hard clip pulled a hole in the skirt material. Don't think this X-Vision design has been around long enough for the wear and tear required, but given that 99% of all masks ever sold are not this design it does not surprise me that all the years you've been in business and all the years masks have been around that you've seen a few hard-clips break, the difference is you can fix the hard clip it's nearly impossible without an outright replacement to fix the type of tearing I've seen.

Here's a question scubatoys, since you're defending the design, and since your "in" with Mares, please give them a call for all of us and ask them how many masks they've had returned with damage on the skirt where the hard clips attach. I'd love to hear the actual numbers, if they say zero then they just lost all respect, where they are already standing on unstable ground.

I saw hardly any at all, in fact for every 1000 mask I sold I saw maybe ten failures, of those ten maybe one had a failure at the skirt the rest had frame cracking. Most of those were being dropped/having gear dropped on it.

Wrong tree to bark at again....
 
scubatoys:
Wow dude... take three deep breaths, count to 10. Try to relax a bit. I actually run a business, dealing with hundreds of customers a day who actually want to buy a product, or get advice on buying decisions, so I really can't take the time to drop everything to chase down some numbers for someone who is on a rampage about something as simple as a mask design. I pulled my numbers last night, since they've had the X - vision, it became so popular, the brought out the pure vision, and now the mid vision for smaller faces. Between the 3 styles, we have sold 2,384 masks. Zero returns. Talking to Mares, they have had very few come back. Fractions of a percent.

Besides, you are on a public forum board with tens of thousands of members. So far, virtually everyone who has posted on this thread other than you has said they like the mask. Not one person has said they had a problem with the straps...

If this was a "design flaw" don't you think perhaps one person on this board would have had one that failed? What about those NUMBERS? Zero reported failures on this board... that is the OUTCOME I PREDICTED.

I'm quite relaxed lol ... I find this type of response to be common with a defensive posture when confronted, which is why the detail you provided in your post suprised me a bit, to that I say thanks. Thanks for providing your personal sales figures, and returns stats - that was more than expected. I'd say you've had an amazing run with X-Vision mr. scubatoys.

The more interesting stat would be to determine when an X-Vision is returned how many are due to a tear in the skirt at the point where the hard clip is attached. I'm not expecting an answer from you, nor do I expect for Mares to step forward with that information. I only have personal experience with local shops and the masks I've seen as reference. I guess if there is an opposite place to be in the universe from the experience of your shop it's all the other shops I've been to. I agree with you about seeing some examples of failed X-Visions but given the tiny number of replies in this thread, the specific visibility of this thread, the volume of traffic on scuba board and a quick comparison to your sales figures we can hardly draw any profound conculsions.

cerich:
Wrong tree to bark at again....
I always find it interesting on a thread filled with incredulity and fathoms of adulation, served with refreshing glasses of special koolaid shared by all ... that any voice of descent (or reasonableness <grin>) is singled out. Bottom line is the experiences of divers using this mask is more 'varied' regarding this design than this thread would make credible ... I therefore enjoy the 'apparent' sole opportunity to remind readers, yet undecided, to consider the wide variety of options available to them, before taking a sip.
 
I think if you would have come on here as a reasonable person and reviewed the mask from a personal aspect everyone would have appreciated the input. Especially me who is currently looking at this mask. What I think you did was come out angry and arrogant and accused Mares and challenged Scubatoys. Not nicely from what I read and others did also.

I am not trying to be a prick in your BCD but you want everyone to respect your opinion....respect theirs. What Scubatoys did is come back with some very nice information that I honestly wouldn't have expected either. Another reason I buy from them now I might add.

Another comment would be that if someone left them sitting in their car, in the sun and then tried to use them...they probably deserve exactly what they get. Cars can reach 350 degrees in the sun at times. I don't think you could disagree with that too much. It would be similar to someone leaving their mask (with the hard clip design) in -5 below and then dropping it on the ground and the clip or the frame cracking. Is this really a bad design? You and I both know that leaving masks in direct sunlight or high heat for extended periods of time is bad news. I am just trying to be fair here. Hell, you're in Tech Support...who should know this more than you! (I work in Tech company too)

Another observation would be on the Environment. Scubatoys apparently has seen none of these coming back for this reason yet you claim to have seen plenty. Environment may very well be the factor here as most people in Dallas Texas don't tend to drive around with Scuba equipment in their car all the time as the dive spots are very few and far between where as you may very well be close to the shores of Mecca where its much more common. In fact I would say that most people who don't live next to the water probably don't do this at all. Different environments would equal very different equipment practices don't you think? This could very well be the reason for the difference that you claim to have seen.

Given the impossibilities of perfection in manufacturing for anything, I would say that a less than .01% return rate for a product like this is pretty good overall and I would also estimate that Mares would have changes their design long ago if it had been escalated as the cost for warranty is painful for most manufacturers. I would say that given the challenges of plastics and silicon derometers could also be a factor to some degree and if the return rates were higher than reasonable it would have been pulled off long ago. One other factor is that 80% or more of us are struggling to get in 30-40 dives per year where as you could perhaps have hundreds and your equipment is likely to get a vastly different amount of abuse than most of the people out there who own the mask.

Either way, no reason to come in and be derogatory about it to anyone. I think everyone here would respect your review if you had come across differently and I think Scubatoys pointing out a different view from yours was a healthy response and did not deserve the belittling you spewed out. Not cool. This forum is about sharing knowledge and I bet you have a lot to share from a look at your profile. Just don't come across as the only opinion that matters here.
 
tjmills:
I think if you would have come on here as a reasonable person and reviewed the mask from a personal aspect everyone would have appreciated the input. Especially me who is currently looking at this mask. What I think you did was come out angry and arrogant and accused Mares and challenged Scubatoys. Not nicely from what I read and others did also.

I am not trying to be a prick in your BCD but you want everyone to respect your opinion....respect theirs. What Scubatoys did is come back with some very nice information that I honestly wouldn't have expected either. Another reason I buy from them now I might add.

Another comment would be that if someone left them sitting in their car, in the sun and then tried to use them...they probably deserve exactly what they get. Cars can reach 350 degrees in the sun at times. I don't think you could disagree with that too much. It would be similar to someone leaving their mask (with the hard clip design) in -5 below and then dropping it on the ground and the clip or the frame cracking. Is this really a bad design? You and I both know that leaving masks in direct sunlight or high heat for extended periods of time is bad news. I am just trying to be fair here. Hell, you're in Tech Support...who should know this more than you! (I work in Tech company too)

Another observation would be on the Environment. Scubatoys apparently has seen none of these coming back for this reason yet you claim to have seen plenty. Environment may very well be the factor here as most people in Dallas Texas don't tend to drive around with Scuba equipment in their car all the time as the dive spots are very few and far between where as you may very well be close to the shores of Mecca where its much more common. In fact I would say that most people who don't live next to the water probably don't do this at all. Different environments would equal very different equipment practices don't you think? This could very well be the reason for the difference that you claim to have seen.

Given the impossibilities of perfection in manufacturing for anything, I would say that a less than .01% return rate for a product like this is pretty good overall and I would also estimate that Mares would have changes their design long ago if it had been escalated as the cost for warranty is painful for most manufacturers. I would say that given the challenges of plastics and silicon derometers could also be a factor to some degree and if the return rates were higher than reasonable it would have been pulled off long ago. One other factor is that 80% or more of us are struggling to get in 30-40 dives per year where as you could perhaps have hundreds and your equipment is likely to get a vastly different amount of abuse than most of the people out there who own the mask.

Either way, no reason to come in and be derogatory about it to anyone. I think everyone here would respect your review if you had come across differently and I think Scubatoys pointing out a different view from yours was a healthy response and did not deserve the belittling you spewed out. Not cool. This forum is about sharing knowledge and I bet you have a lot to share from a look at your profile. Just don't come across as the only opinion that matters here.

I expressed not just personal opinion but personal experience. The thread had become a love-fest for Mares and X-Vision. I expressed an opinion of dissent, to which I was equally entitled (using your lingo). Your opinion is just as valued, by me. I asked for facts and eventually got them, to that end I expressed gratitude.

Masks are left in cars and in trunks of cars all the time, I'm surprised you don't hear of this much ... shores everywhere are packed every weekend with cars and trucks, vans, and campers filled with divers stuff to port between shore and residence. The difference here is when the hard clip is attached directly to the hard plastic frame the heat does not soften the frame so that the clip pulls free under any duress. The numbers of masks sold vs returned at the shop run by scubatoys is impressive, I say this because of the number of returned and torn masks I have seen and heard about, and that's a bit scary given the short lifespan of this mask.

The divers I have dived with tell stories of diving with the same mask for 3-5-10 years! I guess time will bear out how well the X-Vision survives, but we'll just have to ask these same questions 3-5-10 years from now.

I'm glad you are exploring your options and that you listened to both sides of the arguments presented here. Ignorance is a condition that fortunately can be cured. After being informed a person is empowered to make a choice with more confidence, assurance. I'd take it a bit further and offer anyone owning an X-Vision who is aware of this information might take special consideration now in the care of their X-Vision and thus have a higher chance to have it last as long as other mask designs, ones where the temples/hard clips are connected to the hard frame. More power to them in this endeavor.

As for the belittling you referred to, it made me go back and re-read the thread again ... I can't find any degrading or derogatory remarks or attacks or belittling made against any individual. Perhaps you misunderstood my resilient stand for the right to express one's opinion, even more important when that opinion is contrary to the mainstream view. I personally consider it an inalienable right and I will always "fight" vehemently for it.

I do value your expressions too, thanks for them.

Edit: spelling errors.
 
DiverBuoy:
#1 Design Flaw - the X-Vision mask strap attaches directly to the skirt, not the hard frame. Though Mares used slightly thicker material at the connection point it's still attached to the silicon ... this becomes a primary failure point. The problem is if it tears underwater here ... it's not the same as a mask strap breaking. You now have a hole in your mask.

I got about 300 dives on mine and have had no problems.
 
DiverBuoy:
I'm quite relaxed lol ... I find this type of response to be common with a defensive posture when confronted, which is why the detail you provided in your post suprised me a bit, to that I say thanks. Thanks for providing your personal sales figures, and returns stats - that was more than expected. I'd say you've had an amazing run with X-Vision mr. scubatoys.

The more interesting stat would be to determine when an X-Vision is returned how many are due to a tear in the skirt at the point where the hard clip is attached. I'm not expecting an answer from you, nor do I expect for Mares to step forward with that information. I only have personal experience with local shops and the masks I've seen as reference. I guess if there is an opposite place to be in the universe from the experience of your shop it's all the other shops I've been to. I agree with you about seeing some examples of failed X-Visions but given the tiny number of replies in this thread, the specific visibility of this thread, the volume of traffic on scuba board and a quick comparison to your sales figures we can hardly draw any profound conculsions.

I always find it interesting on a thread filled with incredulity and fathoms of adulation, served with refreshing glasses of special koolaid shared by all ... that any voice of descent (or reasonableness <grin>) is singled out. Bottom line is the experiences of divers using this mask is more 'varied' regarding this design than this thread would make credible ... I therefore enjoy the 'apparent' sole opportunity to remind readers, yet undecided, to consider the wide variety of options available to them, before taking a sip.

You sir, are an expert at well written but meaningless dribble.

In simple grade 8 english, (which if indeed you do have a higher education you will know is optimum for public communication using the written word) what is your issue with Mares/Dacor? You have extrapolated experiences with other brands of masks to the X Vision without any proof and bitterly complained that Dacor offers no support for for a product that exists solely in your head.

How can any of us take what you say with any more than a large grain of salt?
 
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