tjmills:
I think if you would have come on here as a reasonable person and reviewed the mask from a personal aspect everyone would have appreciated the input. Especially me who is currently looking at this mask. What I think you did was come out angry and arrogant and accused Mares and challenged Scubatoys. Not nicely from what I read and others did also.
I am not trying to be a prick in your BCD but you want everyone to respect your opinion....respect theirs. What Scubatoys did is come back with some very nice information that I honestly wouldn't have expected either. Another reason I buy from them now I might add.
Another comment would be that if someone left them sitting in their car, in the sun and then tried to use them...they probably deserve exactly what they get. Cars can reach 350 degrees in the sun at times. I don't think you could disagree with that too much. It would be similar to someone leaving their mask (with the hard clip design) in -5 below and then dropping it on the ground and the clip or the frame cracking. Is this really a bad design? You and I both know that leaving masks in direct sunlight or high heat for extended periods of time is bad news. I am just trying to be fair here. Hell, you're in Tech Support...who should know this more than you! (I work in Tech company too)
Another observation would be on the Environment. Scubatoys apparently has seen none of these coming back for this reason yet you claim to have seen plenty. Environment may very well be the factor here as most people in Dallas Texas don't tend to drive around with Scuba equipment in their car all the time as the dive spots are very few and far between where as you may very well be close to the shores of Mecca where its much more common. In fact I would say that most people who don't live next to the water probably don't do this at all. Different environments would equal very different equipment practices don't you think? This could very well be the reason for the difference that you claim to have seen.
Given the impossibilities of perfection in manufacturing for anything, I would say that a less than .01% return rate for a product like this is pretty good overall and I would also estimate that Mares would have changes their design long ago if it had been escalated as the cost for warranty is painful for most manufacturers. I would say that given the challenges of plastics and silicon derometers could also be a factor to some degree and if the return rates were higher than reasonable it would have been pulled off long ago. One other factor is that 80% or more of us are struggling to get in 30-40 dives per year where as you could perhaps have hundreds and your equipment is likely to get a vastly different amount of abuse than most of the people out there who own the mask.
Either way, no reason to come in and be derogatory about it to anyone. I think everyone here would respect your review if you had come across differently and I think Scubatoys pointing out a different view from yours was a healthy response and did not deserve the belittling you spewed out. Not cool. This forum is about sharing knowledge and I bet you have a lot to share from a look at your profile. Just don't come across as the only opinion that matters here.
I expressed not just personal opinion but personal experience. The thread had become a love-fest for Mares and X-Vision. I expressed an opinion of dissent, to which I was equally entitled (using your lingo). Your opinion is just as valued, by me. I asked for facts and eventually got them, to that end I expressed gratitude.
Masks are left in cars and in trunks of cars all the time, I'm surprised you don't hear of this much ... shores everywhere are packed every weekend with cars and trucks, vans, and campers filled with divers stuff to port between shore and residence. The difference here is when the hard clip is attached directly to the hard plastic frame the heat does not soften the frame so that the clip pulls free under any duress. The numbers of masks sold vs returned at the shop run by
scubatoys is impressive, I say this because of the number of returned and torn masks I have seen and heard about, and that's a bit scary given the short lifespan of this mask.
The divers I have dived with tell stories of diving with the same mask for 3-5-10 years! I guess time will bear out how well the X-Vision survives, but we'll just have to ask these same questions 3-5-10 years from now.
I'm glad you are exploring your options and that you listened to both sides of the arguments presented here. Ignorance is a condition that fortunately can be cured. After being informed a person is empowered to make a choice with more confidence, assurance. I'd take it a bit further and offer anyone owning an X-Vision who is aware of this information might take special consideration now in the care of their X-Vision and thus have a higher chance to have it last as long as other mask designs, ones where the temples/hard clips are connected to the hard frame. More power to them in this endeavor.
As for the belittling you referred to, it made me go back and re-read the thread again ... I can't find any degrading or derogatory remarks or attacks or belittling made against any individual. Perhaps you misunderstood my resilient stand for the right to express one's opinion, even more important when that opinion is contrary to the mainstream view. I personally consider it an inalienable right and I will always "fight" vehemently for it.
I do value your expressions too, thanks for them.
Edit: spelling errors.
