Mares Abyss/Protons - price differences and freezing?

[asaara]

What are the major *diver noticeable* differences in the Mares Abyss and the Proton Metal, Proton Ice, and various other Proton models that seem to be out there? Technical data is great, but what exactly does that translate into, performance-wise? What are the typical/expected price differences between these, if one hasn't been lucky enough to find an old Dacor reg to trade in while dumpster diving?

Also, what temperatures do people find the various regs mentioned freeze up at? I've heard everything from "Never freezes" to "Freezes just thinking about ice diving" for even the Proton Ice, but what's average/expected/normal for these guys?

I don't plan on any hardcore ice diving, but I don't want freezing on the occasional trip down to the low 50s...and I'd rather buy from an LDS so I can go in and yell at them personally when the reg they swore would never freeze up does...

 

[M_Bipartitus]

I just bought a Proton LE after looking at all these (got a good deal). The biggest difference I found between all these was the small size of the proton vs. abyss. Asside from the V12, it's unlikely that most divers could tell the difference in breathing between the first stages on these.

... if one hasn't been lucky enough to find an old Dacor reg...

There are plenty on ebay.

The Proton Ice is more of a first stage style than a designation for ice diving, that said any of them can be environmentally sealed, if you want to. The Proton Ice Extreme comes sealed, if I recall. In my research I didn't hear any freezing problems with any of the models mentioned in water above the low 40s. That said, I haven't had any first hand experience in water that cold with my new proton.

 

[BlueDevil]

I can't comment on issues of freezing since the water were I live never gets below around 9-10C, so it is not an issue.

I have a Mares Abyss and several other cheaper Mares regs (Akros, Epos, MKIII, and Proton - all on the MR12 first stage - note that some of these models are now disontinued). The Abyss is a great reg, but it is very heavy if you are travelling by air on small planes where baggage limits are an issue. I also find that the cheaper regs on the MR12 first stage breath extremely well. For example when using twin tanks I have used my MR12 Akros on one tank and my Abyss on the other - alternating between these two regs at 60m (approx 200ft) I was unable to pick the difference between them. I have also done this with the MR12 Epos. The question then is unless you are going to be doing very deep dives in extreme circumstances why pay for an Abyss when a reg such as the MR12 Proton will do just as well, even beyond normal recreational limits? As for the Proton I just have the basic plastic model on an MR12 and it seems fine, but the deepest I have had it to so far is 42m. However i have no reason to believe it wouldn't work as well as all my other Mares regs at 60m.

The MR12 Proton is a great light weight reg, suitable for any recreational diving and beyond. If you want go for the V16 first stage but I don't think you will notice the difference. If money is no object then why not get an Abyss (unless you will be flying with it - definitely too heavy for my liking).


PS
I just noticed that you said you wanted a reg that wouldn't freeze in low 50's temps. I just converted this to 'real' units (Celsius) and found that 50F equates to 10C. At this sort of temp freezing is NOT an issue. As I said the water near me gets to around 9-10C over winter and NO ONE around here buys regs specifically designed for cold water diving. I have been diving in water of this temp for almost 30 years (ie regs that back then had 30 year old technology) and I have NEVER had a reg freeze, nor have I ever seen a buddy's reg freeze, or even heard on the grapevine of such an event! None of the regs I have used are specifically designed for cold water and they include brands such as Aqualung, Scubapro, Sea Hornet, Dacor, Sea Bee, Kawasaki, Apollo and of course Mares. If your LDS are trying to convince you that you need a special cold water reg then they are trying to take advantage of you!!

Hope this helps

 

[asaara]

I just noticed that you said you wanted a reg that wouldn't freeze in low 50's temps. I just converted this to 'real' units (Celsius) and found that 50F equates to 10C. At this sort of temp freezing is NOT an issue. As I said the water near me gets to around 9-10C over winter and NO ONE around here buys regs specifically designed for cold water diving. I have been diving in water of this temp for almost 30 years (ie regs that back then had 30 year old technology) and I have NEVER had a reg freeze, nor have I ever seen a buddy's reg freeze, or even heard on the grapevine of such an event! None of the regs I have used are specifically designed for cold water and they include brands such as Aqualung, Scubapro, Sea Hornet, Dacor, Sea Bee, Kawasaki, Apollo and of course Mares. If your LDS are trying to convince you that you need a special cold water reg then they are trying to take advantage of you!!

Not my LDS, I've just seen regs freeflowing at those temperatures, though no external ice buildup that I noticed, but could be just bad maintenance.

Don't regs with the MR12 first stage still need servicing every year, where ones with the V16 (the V32 on the Proton Ice as well?) only need it every two years?

 

[aquaoren]

Took the Abyss to temperatures around 0C (What is it? around 32-33F?) regulary (couple hundred dives in total) in Nova Scotia and the Great Lakes during our Canadian winters Never even had a hick up regardless how deep or how cold. Extremely reliable and good performer. Mine isn't sealed FWIW.
No experience with the other Mares regs you've mentioned.

 

[Mlody11]

I ahve to Agree with blueDevil. I have a Proton MR12 with the poly Carbonate 2nd stage and the Mr12 as the first stage. Took the reg to a depth of 30-40 feet with temps in the high 40s and low 50s and had no problem with freeflows or icing. Im sure the other regs perform better, but this one does it well enough. Excellent Regs, no matter which ones you choose.

 

[do it easy]

I have 1 MR12 and 4 Abyss regs. I heart the Abyss! The MR12 was my first reg and I use it for my drysuit inflation. None of my regs have the cold water kit. I've been in water as cold as 38f and ice diving with no problems. I might have been in colder water, but I don't always look at the temp when I dive.

I recommend the Abyss. The proton series use the same first stage, but the Abyss is cheaper.

 

[Greg Barlow]

I've made references to using Mares regs several times in the past, but will condense my thoughts and experiences into a few points. First, the VAD design is quite effective at keeping the second stage stable, and without annoying flutter. Secondly, the machining and quality control are held to excellent standards considering the price range. Thirdly, the first and second stages are very easy to service and properly tune.

I routinely use my Mares regs in cold water. In fact, just this past week I made two dives in 38 degree water with my V16 Proton (polymer bodied). I have never used the environmental kits on my first stages, and have yet to experience a free flow from my regs. This, I might add, is after more than literally hundreds of dives in water below 50 degrees.

A dive buddy is an ice diving instructor, and he also uses the V16 Proton without the metal second stage and minus the sealed first stage. He, too, has yet to experience a single free flow.

I do like the Abyss, along with the other full-sized second stages due to their larger exhaust tees. I use two MR12 Akros regs for my cave/wreck/tech diving rig, and have been very pleased with them. I use the V16 Proton for long hose single tank use, and it also has been a reliable performer. I have to say that there are circumstances where exhaust bubbles do create a problem with the smaller Proton exhaust tee.

My preference on the Akros/Proton lines comes from the ease of fine tuning the second stages through the side port. This is MUCH simpler than servicing the Abyss style second stage with the clamp ring. I've been servicing Mares regs for several years, and have found that the Proton is the easiest Mares reg to finely adjust. There are very few O-rings as compared to the average second stage, and that equates to reliablity. Plus, after a few dives where the seat/orifice interface develops, it is less than a five-minute job to adjust the lever height to perfection.

Just in closing, I also make a lot of dives with my Apeks DS4/TX50 long hose single tank rig. This rig is an outstanding design. It allows the user to adjust the cracking effort throughout the dive conditions. But......For those who just want to dive and not adjust their second stage, Mares products are a great choice. They are also very fairly priced, and can be serviced just about anywhere in the world.

Greg Barlow
Former Science Editor for Rodale's Scuba Diving Magazine

 

[BlueDevil]

Not my LDS, I've just seen regs freeflowing at those temperatures, though no external ice buildup that I noticed, but could be just bad maintenance.

Any reg is potentially susceptible to freeflowing at any temperature, especially if it is very finely tuned. But this type of freeflow is easily stopped by the various measures as taught in your open water course. Rarely would a reg freeflow and it couldn't be stopped unless there is something wrong (such as freezing up). I have found the Mares regs are particularly resistant to freeflowing, and they don't need adjustment knobs to achieve this (as some regs do). I am no expert on the mechanics of regs but as I understand it if a reg is 'de-tuned' significantly it will be very resistant to free flowing, but very hard breathing. If a reg is finely tuned it will be much more likely to freeflow but much easier breathing. A good service tech will strike the right balance between the extremes.

Don't regs with the MR12 first stage still need servicing every year, where ones with the V16 (the V32 on the Proton Ice as well?) only need it every two years?

I don't know what the servicing requirements are for the V16/V32. Maybe because of the spherical core seal they can go longer between services. Mind you, while I usually get my regs serviced each year there are certainly times when my MR12's would have gone up to 2 years without a service with no adverse efffect on performance.



Certainly if you have no budget restrictions the Abyss is a great reg, and the V16 Proton would also be good. If that is what you want then go for it! I guess my preference towards the MR12 Proton is that it is reasonably priced, will meet any of my diving requirements (deco dives at depths to 60m), and is very light weight for travelling. This becomes an issue when you may need to take 2 or 3 regs on trip (we took 4 regs between my wife and I on a trip to Vanuatu - I needed two regs for my twin tanks and a nitrox reg for my deco gas, plus one for my wife). We originally got the Proton for my wife as she has always had trouble with the weight of 2nd stages 'dragging' down in her mouth (she would often swim around holding the reg in her mouth because of this). The plastic Proton has been a great solution to this problem. I am also teaching my 12 year old to dive and the Proton is ideal for her for the same reason - when the time comes to get her a reg of her own it will definitely be an MR12 Proton.

PS Don't think the plastic Protons won't be durable enough compared to metal. I have had my Akros reg (plastic 2nd stage) for many years and it has had plenty of use without any problems.

PPS One other issue with the Abyss is the wide bore hose (I am assuming this is still the case - my Abyss is a few years old now so things may have changed on recent models). If diving in remote areas and you blow an LP hose it will be generally very easy to get a standard bore hose, but may be difficult to access a wide bore hose. The connection of the hose to the DFC LP port on my reg is a non-standard fitting. When travelling to tropical resorts I carry an adapter so I can use a standard bore hose if I need to replace a hose.

 

[Scuba]

A metal second stage can eliminate or reduce dry mouth if this an issue. It works for me.