DIR- GUE Long hose question

[ginti]

I would like to clarify that it's due to lack of experience from my side and insecurity on addressing such potential issues. It's partially a "me" issue.

Maybe it is. Anyway, the thing is another one to me.

If you say, "I am that conservative because I am not that experienced," you deliver a message (and, the way you answered me, it seems this is the case - and let me add that you are wise in limiting yourself a bit if your experience is not enough to make you comfortable in certain situations, this is what everybody should be doing).

If you say, "As a GUE diver, I do this and that," you deliver a totally different message - something very close to "Within GUE, we do this and that." This approach can create a bit of misunderstanding about what you say, even when you are right, and may make uncomfortable some people with different perspectives.

Anyway, I got your point, fair enough

I don't think we are too far off. I am just more conservative since you are far more experienced than myself.

My social circle is mostly consisted by GUE divers, diving almost only with other GUE divers. Albeit, most dives are for research, not pure fun dives. In almost 100% of the dives with non-GUE buddies, there is some extra mental fatigue due to keeping a closer eye to the buddy. Given that, to this point, less than 10% of my dives are for recreational purposes, I would say that my social bubble might not be the typical one.

Got it, and yes, you are probably right. This is a point you may want to highlight when you post on the forum because it is indeed very uncommon and may help people understand your perspective better.

 

[mariosx]

Maybe it is. Anyway, the thing is another one to me.

If you say, "I am that conservative because I am not that experienced," you deliver a message (and, the way you answered me, it seems this is the case - and let me add that you are wise in limiting yourself a bit if your experience is not enough to make you comfortable in certain situations, this is what everybody should be doing).

If you say, "As a GUE diver, I do this and that," you deliver a totally different message - something very close to "Within GUE, we do this and that." This approach can create a bit of misunderstanding about what you say, even when you are right, and may make uncomfortable some people with different perspectives.

Sure. I tried to add enough disclaimers in my initial post, but given the word salad it ended-up being, I won't blame anyone for missing them. Saying that, I can imagine other people in GUE having a similar approach. Maybe mostly the newbies as myself.

Got it, and yes, you are probably right. This is a point you may want to highlight when you post on the forum because it is indeed very uncommon and may help people understand your perspective better.

Yes, you are right, and I try to do it in most cases. It's just that sometimes it's easy to forget that your experience may differs from the others, or even the norm... Well, my bad I guess...

 

[ginti]

Saying that, I can imagine other people in GUE having a similar approach. Maybe mostly the newbies as myself.

To the specific issue of a panicked diver, as I said before, being conservative is typical of any person with common sense - it has nothing to do with GUE.

Also, other things you mentioned are not typical of GUE in my experience; this one, for example, is just NOT true:

In GUE you already "limit" yourself diving within a great, but small, community.

GUE does not say anything about your buddies. The vast majority of my buddies for no-deco and non-overhead dives are not from GUE. While most of my cave/tech buddies are GUE trained, I have been in caves with people holding zero cards from GUE. I just don't care about the card - I care about planning, skills, and attitude. And that isn't just me, by far.

Again, nothing wrong with sharing your experience: we are here for this reason but keep in mind that you need lots of experience to generalize (far more than I have).

 

[rddvet]

No, my DIR training was through UTD.

I apologize. I must have lost my mind. I did not mean to imply that people who got their technical and cave training anywhere other than GUE can even be mentioned in the same paragraph as the lowliest of GUE instructors. When we are in their presence, we tremble in shame of our unworthiness. I personally try to get close in the hopes that their aura will somehow transfer even the tiniest whiff of that excellence to my being. I hope someday to get close enough to touch the hem of their garment so that their healing power will pass over me.

The grand majority of my training isnt GUE. You simply implied that you can easily get the same level of training in any other agency's intro to tech courses or similar. You sure can if you find the right instructor. Thats like finding a needle in a haystack. I've done that many times and have been disappointed quite a few times. I have retaken multiple classes through multiple agencies/instructors because I believe as you eluded that there are good quality instructors from other agencies. I retook the classes because I believe you can garner knowledge from any instructor regardless of how good they are or who they teach for. The problem is finding them. I strongly believe in continuing your education once you have the certs. I am currently enjoying taking GUE classes. The big difference is its much easier to find a good quality GUE instructor by just picking one than it is in other agencies. If you just randomly pick an IANTD instructor, god knows if they'll be good or not. I am not suggesting not researching instructors. You were trying to make the point that you can very easily find the same quality of instruction anywhere. You can find it, is it easy, no. I have taken classes with many highly recommended instructors from various agencies. The only place I find consistency in what is taught and the quality of instruction is GUE due to their stringent instructor requirements.
Not sure if you have some axe to grind against GUE. I am simply countering your post that insinuated you can easily find the same instruction elsewhere. And my point is you can, but not easily. But thanks for your condescending response. You could have elaborated on your point and had a discussion, but rather chose to be snarky. Its a discussion. I disagreed with your response. You can disagree with mine. A better choice would be to add counterpoints, but rather you act like a baby.

 

[Nick_Radov]

Tech diving, indeed, is not just cave diving (which in reality is a small subset of tech diving).
For example the whole trimix courses sequence does not require a long hose at all...
It is not even suggested, as it can be troublesome when switching regs for different mixes.

I'm not sure where you got that misunderstanding but a long hose primary is in no way troublesome when switching gasses. Rather the opposite.
If you might have to share back gas with a buddy from the bottom up to the first gas switch then a long hose is essential. Otherwise you'll be forced too close together and the ascent will turn into a CF.

 

[rddvet]

I'm not sure where you got that misunderstanding but a long hose primary is in no way troublesome when switching gasses. Rather the opposite.
If you might have to share back gas with a buddy from the bottom up to the first gas switch then a long hose is essential. Otherwise you'll be forced too close together and the ascent will turn into a CF.

Agree, a long hose is really the ideal solution. I wonder if Angelo falls under the "pass a bottle" heading. Some agencies/instructors believe you can just pass a bottle to your buddy. I absolutely would worst case scenario, but its much easier to share the long hose. A long hose does not make gas switches more difficult.

 

[mariosx]

.

 

[ginti]

@mariosx I was probably not clear enough; please accept my apologies. I think we are going far too off-topic, so if you want to continue, feel free to drop me a private message or open another thread

 

[KenE]

I had a cord wrapped around my neck, to include the back, and it was tightened till I blacked out and this is what you come back with? So deeply sorry my trauma isn't logical.

I regret starting this thread. Can a mod delete it?

No, don't delete it, but please ignore those who don't understand trauma! Talk to your GUE instructor, GUE is inclusive for certain situations. A 5' hose tucked and with a 90deg or 120deg swivel does not need to go around the neck, nothing in the GUE standard requires how you place the hose, just the length. I do not dive GUE because of a disability that requires a break in my left shoulder strap to don and doff BC. However, GUE does teach good classes and there is value in learning.

I will add that you should communicate your limitations, ie. neck sensitivity, so your buddies understand why you react they way you do in that situation. It will make it safer if something happens. They don't need the whole story, just how you will react to certain situations. I have limitations that I express at every dive so everyone is aware of it. Not that it will impact our dive, but it is just safer that they know.

I commend you on talking about this, you are going about it in the right way. SB has many experienced divers who can help you overcome any difficulty. Please understand that most are trying to help and text does not convey all feelings, so some may appear insensitive. Some perspectives about GUE here on SB may not be the same as your local instructor, so talk to them, even if you don't get the tech pass the class may be worth the effort. It doesn't appear that cave or wreck diving is in your near future, so the tech pass is not required for you.

Keep diving and improving, keep it fun!

 

[Lorenzoid]

A 5' hose tucked and with a 90deg or 120deg swivel does not need to go around the neck, nothing in the GUE standard requires how you place the hose, just the length.

By the literal wording of the standard, that looks correct. I wonder what the instructor corps would have to say about it in reality? I know that hose swivels/fittings are disfavored because they are unnecessary potential failure points. But are they totally unacceptable, even for a diver with a disability?