DIR- GUE Long hose question

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I would contact an instructor and ask. Worse case they say no.

Personally, I’d consider the 40” hose primary and bungeed backup and see if that will work for class. I wouldn’t expect a pass, but I bet you’d still learn a ton and walk away with more knowledge and as a stronger diver. The “pass” doesn’t mean much unless you’re looking to move on to cave/tech. The info and skills are what matters.

The bungeed backup and its proximity to your neck might be even more of a challenge than the long hose. Not sure there’s really a work around for that other that perhaps help via a psychologist that can help you work through it.
 
My medical providers who are familiar with me and the entirety of my medical history found me fit to dive. My instructors are/were aware and to my knowledge no accommodations were ever made. However, I do not disclose what happened to me to every random buddy I get paired with because I do not disassociate, panic, freeze, or otherwise behave in a way that would jeopardize my safety or anyone else’s and I never have.

Could I do it if I absolutely had to? Yes. You likely wouldn't even know anything was wrong with me. I'd probably do decently well with the material, too. With that said, the elevated heart rate, hit to my SAC rate, and the subsequent night terrors aren't worth it.

Thank you for having the courage and openness to share this.

If you are not accepted as a student by a GUE instructor, I would advise that you can adopt and practice many of the principles and practical elements of DIR/GUE diving without going through their certification courses. There is plenty of literature, videos, and such to learn from. A video camera mounted to the wall/floor of a swimming pool will provide some good feedback as will a training partner with a pragmatic perspective towards your goals. This will allow you to develop skills and mentality similar to GUE while using the gear configuration that works best for you.

And, you would not be the first to take this alternate path. There are lots of folks that for many reasons have not become DIR/GUE divers but have adopted/incorporated aspects of the DIR/GUE paradigm into their diving.

I wish you much luck with your diving endeavors.

-Z
 
it was implied by your compartive statement in post # 30:
It was not. That's my point. Characterizing a very specific trigger as "being triggered by relatively innocuous things" is clumsy phrasing at best, and calloused at worst. I'd challenge you to really think about being OP on the receiving end of that phrasing and how it might impact someone's receptiveness to the advice being given.
You seemingly have decided that you are on one side of the table of this issue and those that have and want to share a differing perspective in an open and earnest discussion are on the other side of that table.
How so? I wrote myself that if OP could be at risk of panic from common events, and that she should consider focusing on therapy for the time being. The difference is I posed this as more of a question, because I'm not OP and not aware of all the details and nuances of her mental state.

Based on this, one cannot really discuss the OP's concern from a view point contrary to the one you and perhaps the OP ascribe to without coming across as insensitive.
I don't agree.

For example, a more sensitive approach that still allows one to discuss this without sugar coating or putting OP in danger, might be to take time to ask OP for more information, getting specifics about the level of stress, giving her examples of common scenarios and saying "how would this situation make you feel" and helping walk OP to a logical conclusion about risk based those nuanced details.

Especially given the context of the thread as a whole. OP got hit immediately with some pretty ****** replies, to the point of expressing regret over starting the thread at all. Sometimes it takes a bit more gentleness in a conversation like that, when it's many voices trying to advise one person.
 
My wife has experienced similar trauma. She was hesitant when we started using a long hose, always making sure she had plenty of slack so it wasn’t really touching her neck. She soon realized that once she was under water that it didn’t bother her or trigger any panic/reaction and now even on land it doesn’t bother her. Not saying this will be your result if you try it…your mileage may vary…
 
Would wearing a hood help? You can have one that covers your neck and have no exposed skin at all.
It would help the pressure issue. The other is that if it moves it catches my attention, so I end up constantly scanning for it, trying to anticipate when it'll move.

@PfcAJ the bungie backup is this year's project. I'll probably always keep a BC clip in my mesh bag so I know that option its there. My wetsuits have zippers in the neck for the same reason. I don't think I've actually used them more than once or twice, but it's all about mitigation.
 
One way of diving with a long hose without it going behind your neck would be to dive sidemount, and keep most of the length of the hose tucked next to the bottle. Stowing the hose after sharing air would be... annoying, and this definitely isn't a DIR solution. But it would allow you to do the kind of diving that requires a long hose. Just an idea, hope it helps and happy diving.
 
There was a lot of fight regarding sensitivity and insensitivity regarding the matter, which is a good thing for a supportive community, but sometimes sensitivity can translate to increase of risk and accidents/incidents.

@graphei , in any other side of the forum I would slightly reluctantly telling you that since people with professional experience have checked you off, go for it, and continue diving in safe settings. In "DIR" my understanding from my limited experience is that having panic triggers can be extremely restrictive. "DIR" thrives on standardization and on predictable behavior to an extreme detail. Diverging in any way from those, and especially if it's uncontrollably, might seriously limit your buddy options within GUE. In GUE you already "limit" yourself diving within a great, but small, community. If we assume the best scenario that you "pass" your GUE-F, but you get a panic attack during a fun dive later, news can travel fast in the local community, and I would bet that people might become more reactant diving with you. Safety is taken very seriously, and I can imagine most people would choose a dive that doesn't include the possibility that they would have to rescue themselves and their buddy at a random moment, something that in the mind of most might necessitate constant tracking of you (their buddy) which highly decreases the fun in a dive.
My medical providers who are familiar with me and the entirety of my medical history found me fit to dive. My instructors are/were aware and to my knowledge no accommodations were ever made.
That's very good.
However, I do not disclose what happened to me to every random buddy I get paired with because I do not disassociate, panic, freeze, or otherwise behave in a way that would jeopardize my safety or anyone else’s and I never have. Could I do it if I absolutely had to? Yes. You likely wouldn't even know anything was wrong with me. I'd probably do decently well with the material, too. With that said, the elevated heart rate, hit to my SAC rate, and the subsequent night terrors aren't worth it.
Maybe the thought of having something slightly touching the back of your neck could be triggering is something that has not been translated in to an incident yet, and hopefully it will never be, but as hard as it can be, without getting in details, I think your buddies should know, especially if you dive with a "DIR" mindset. You might take the 1% chances of something going wrong and triggering you, but your buddy might not, and I think hiding such thing could compromise safety for both of you. I have been in such case with a diver that almost got drown herself, and one other diver, potentially also risking DCS, due to panic attack. She came clean after the fact that she had an irrational fear of water, and she thought it would be helpful to do scuba to surpass it. Well... 20 dives later... panic kicked in. All divers in a "DIR" team are responsible for all divers in the team, thus all risks should be assessed by the team during the predive check. The ideal goal should be that you don't say anything to your buddy about any triggers, exactly because you are way past them.

If I were in your shoes, my solution won't be relying only on assessments from medical professionals or GUE Instructors. These are nothing more than informed estimations at best. You know better how you feel, how you think, and how you react, than anybody else.
Speaking for myself, I would focus on getting comfortable with things around my neck and resolving this issue, until I eliminate it completely before getting in the water for some more serious training or diving. Just being familiar with the long hose would be a major step but won't be enough for me. What would happen if you deploy DSMB, and the line get loose approaching your throat? What if a fishing line hits you close to your neck? What if you get entangled in different ways? Enough of my dives are not only for fun, but also for my work, and many things have happened, where if I was not keeping it cool, I won't be there. Admittedly, from a "DIR" perspective some of them might be due to bad planning. Sure... but unpredictable things can happen, and have happened.

People can survive without a long-hose, back kick, trim, etc. But panic attacks is a life and death situation not only for yourself, but also for your buddies, especially the good ones that would try to help you instead of leaving you and focusing taking care of themselves.

It's very fortunate and unfortunate at the same time that our brain is the most adaptive muscle we have. it responds very well to stimuli, though often with a negative bias. You have already made great breakthroughs (I can only imagine how it is to wear a necklace after such tragic event), and I can only speculate that soon you will get over it. To me, the best path is to consider scuba, or any other activity that panic can be lifethreatening after you process this fear and you pass on the other side. You are in the "DIR" forum and this looks like to me as the most DIR solution. There are no shortcuts in "DIR" the way I understand it, and they are not appreciated especially when compromising safety for yourself and for your friends.

I hope the best, and I am confident that addressing things systematically, would produce the best outcomes.
 
but you get a panic attack during a fun dive later, news can travel fast in the local community, and I would bet that people might become more reactant diving with you.

I don't understand this. I thought any diver can call any dive at any time for any reason. Is GUE really this "one strike and you're out" type of community?
 
I don't understand this. I thought any diver can call any dive at any time for any reason. Is GUE really this "one strike and you're out" type of community?
No. This is not the GUE I am familiar with. My experience is of a community interested in understanding both physical and psychological reactions and working as a team to process and overcome challenges. Usually there is some explainable reason for reactions under water. Finding the root cause, correcting and then working on normalising reaction patterns is not at all foreign to GUE divers. Wether it be something that caused a temporary lapse of control, or a physical challenge. Talk to your fellow divers. Usually communication is the most challenging part of the day.
 
There is a myth that only GUE teaches the skills that are taught in the Fundies class. Those skills are typical of all technical diving done by all agencies, and all you need to do is find a technical instructor who will teach those skills without the use of a 7-foot hose. Lots of instructors do that. I did it when I was still instructing.
Doubtful any agency aside from PADI would make any accommodation regarding the long hose in technical/cave prep class.
I have no idea what the point is in this gratuitous dig. Like all agencies that teach tech, PADI requires the long hose once you are in those classes.
 
Back
Top Bottom