Not a dig. PADI is just the only agency I’ve ever seen with divers in their advertising pictures doing tech training without longhoses..so a mere suggestion they seek training with them.
DIR- GUE Long hose question
- Thread starter Salacia2023
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CMAS allows not using a long hose in the Cave level I course, albeit the long hose is the recommended setup.
At Cave Levels II and III the long hose is mandatory, alongside a twin set with a total capacity of at least 4800 liters.
Tech diving, indeed, is not just cave diving (which in reality is a small subset of tech diving).
For example the whole trimix courses sequence does not require a long hose at all...
It is not even suggested, as it can be troublesome when switching regs for different mixes.
It is not clear if the OP just want to step up to tech diving, or of she wants explicitly to pursue cave diving.
mariosx
Contributor
You can call a dive by raising your thumb, and performing control ascend by following the procedure. I don't think that this is something that is happening during a panic episode, almost by definition.
You calll a dive while being rational and communicate with your team, not when your monkey insticts have kicked in.
I don't think so for anyone that is willing to learn and improve, assuming an obvious minimum qualification is met.
I only said that some people will become more relactant to dive with you, not that nobody will dive with you.
Speaking for myself:
If I am diving with a GUE buddy in reasonable conditions (as expected) and at random they panic (forcing me to potentially violate procedures, stressing me out, etc to try my best to save them which necessitates skills that I don't have), I personally will avoid for a bit diving with them the same way, because in my mind they will be "compromised" for a while. I dive for fun and for relaxing, not for stressing more than during my dry life. I would be a massive liar if I said that I will continue considerring such diver a safe buddy, and that I will show them the same trust as before, meaning that I will be forced to "babysit" them and constantly checking with them during a dive, which would be no different than any vacation insta-buddy (the type of divers I tried to avoid by going to GUE). Of course this is a result of my limited experience and lack of skill for addressing such situation, thus I try to minimize getting involved in such situations. To my limited understanding, a panic attack is a result of deep unresolved discomfort, fear, etc, that requires some major introspection and mental work to resolve. I have never experienced it, I cannot understand it as an emotion or feeling, thus for me it's a black box that might be enabled at random intervals. I have done some very stupid dangerous dives, I have been in situations that for other might have been extremely stressful, and at worst I had only a coldblooded thought that there is a 20% probability I will not make it with no fear. In the same flavor, I have the (maybe uninformed) belief that a person that already got a panic attack is more likely to get one in the future, than somebody that never had one during their previous dives. I know how to practice with somebody some skills (S-drill, V-drill, DSM, basic 5, etc) to improve in case they mess up (or more often when I mess up), but not how to practice so they will not get a panic attack again. If I really love them I would take the risk to dive again safely etc, but this is (at best) a dive I will only enjoy by proxy.
General for GUE (to my limited exposure):
I would say it depends. Many experienced people might have no problem performing some easy dives with you (including myself if we dive at maximum 10 feet), but I think it depends a lot on the type of dives you are performing. For example, if a C2 diver gets a serious panic attack in one dive, I don't think that the next few dives with their buddies will be in a serious deep penetration, or even in overhead environment. I might be very wrong on that, but a unified dive team is as strong as the weakest member, and the potential of a panic attack (a major factor for deaths) looks like an important weakness. I could imagine the diver to have no issue to re-establish themselves in their community after they take the steps necessary to address their issues.
P/S: Apologies if I have enough run-on sentences in this post. I am seriously overworked and sleep deprived.
The only thing this thread proves is the DIR forum needs to go back to being closed. A bunch of rando non-dir people commenting about insensitivities, gaslighting, yada yada yada, only clogging up the thread beause they saw the topic in the what's new part of scubaboard. Close the forum to be opt in, help stop this type of bs.
The answer to the OP's question, is for a tec pass you need a 7 ft hose. The only alternative is to contact GUE HQ and ask if there is any way to waive out of it. I doubt there is. Honestly when I first read the commments by the OP i thought it was trolling. Now I guess its not. So if this is a real fear/concern, then it could be deemed a medical exception. Again, doubtful but talk to GUE HQ.
OP: don't take this as insensitive as I don't know you, but you honestly barely notice a looped long hose. I don't know how severe your trauma was/is, but maybe give it a try on your own on land and see how it goes. I have never had a long hose tighten down on me and I've passed through tight areas. If you can get past the initial shock, you may be able to soldier through it.
The answer to the OP's question, is for a tec pass you need a 7 ft hose. The only alternative is to contact GUE HQ and ask if there is any way to waive out of it. I doubt there is. Honestly when I first read the commments by the OP i thought it was trolling. Now I guess its not. So if this is a real fear/concern, then it could be deemed a medical exception. Again, doubtful but talk to GUE HQ.
OP: don't take this as insensitive as I don't know you, but you honestly barely notice a looped long hose. I don't know how severe your trauma was/is, but maybe give it a try on your own on land and see how it goes. I have never had a long hose tighten down on me and I've passed through tight areas. If you can get past the initial shock, you may be able to soldier through it.
This is BS. Sure any agency that teaches "intro to tech" will teach some of the same things GUE will. To say that the things taught in a fundies class can easily be found through other agencies is complete and utter BS. Sure, you can find exceptional instructors in other agencies who teach exceptionally similarly to GUE. Ken Sallot's a good example. Many of those instructors have GUE training and thats why they teach similarly. But to say that you can pretty much go to any agency and get the equivalent of fundies pretty easily is inaccurate at a minimum.
John I'm interested to know if you took fundies or any other GUE courses.
No, my DIR training was through UTD.
I apologize. I must have lost my mind. I did not mean to imply that people who got their technical and cave training anywhere other than GUE can even be mentioned in the same paragraph as the lowliest of GUE instructors. When we are in their presence, we tremble in shame of our unworthiness. I personally try to get close in the hopes that their aura will somehow transfer even the tiniest whiff of that excellence to my being. I hope someday to get close enough to touch the hem of their garment so that their healing power will pass over me.
ginti
Contributor
No.
I don't know why @mariosx is so strict about it, but no, there is no way I will ban a diver for a panic attack forever. However:
(1) I would like to know what happened, to avoid it again.
(2) I will ensure that conditions in the future will be easy and comfortable enough for the diver to avoid panic.
(3) No way I am going to do a dive with conditions that can degrade to a path similar to the one that caused the panic attack. This is a no go.
Keep in mind that a panic attack is something relatively serious, and the diver who suffered from is the first person who will do ANYTHING to avoid it again (including stop diving sometimes). So the primary factor preventing me from diving with this diver would not be me wanting to stay away from them, but rather that diver wanting to do dives that I consider too easy or boring to join (or wanting to quit diving).
Finally, this has nothing to do with GUE. This is common sense.
PS This thing that GUE is a community very close is pretty strange for me, strongly clashing with my experience. I don't know a single GUE diver who only dive with GUE divers, except for a few instructors at a very high level (people who only teach for GUE or explore). And I am not even sure about the last sentence.
mariosx
Contributor
I would like to clarify that it's due to lack of experience from my side and insecurity on addressing such potential issues. It's partially a "me" issue.
And it will not be for life, but it will be for some good months if not more. Such events need time to be processed, the way I see it
I don't think we are too far off. I am just more conservative since you are far more experienced than myself.
My social circle is mostly consisted by GUE divers, diving almost only with other GUE divers. Albeit, most dives are for research, not pure fun dives. In almost 100% of the dives with non-GUE buddies, there is some extra mental fatigue due to keeping a closer eye to the buddy. Given that, to this point, less than 10% of my dives are for recreational purposes, I would say that my social bubble might not be the typical one.
RobPNW
Contributor
Maybe get an 8' hose and there will be a little more slack behind the neck that will be more comfortable.
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