Line tender

[nadwidny]

Are ice diving classes more or less thorough than intro to cave? How does the money part play a role?

Way less thorough for diving skills than intro to cave. It's all about how to cut the hole, how to mark the hole, how to tie yourself to your instructor, line tending, and don't pre-breath the reg on the surface. A rock could take an ice diving course and pass the diving portion. A typical ice diving course sometimes involves a couple hours of class room (sometimes not) and 4 shallow and short (15-20 minute) dives.

Money enters for 2 reasons- It can be a good revenue stream for OW instructors in the winter time when open water is not available.

It can be taught without taking a course. Most of the OW guys that I know become ice diving instructors by helping out on a couple of courses then telling their agency that they want to be ice instructors. Much quicker than going the intro to cave instructor route.

 

[rjack321]

I ice dove with the Ontario group last winter, was actually my first time ice diving.

They have been ice diving ala cave diving for a number of years now and its been a rocky road. At one point they were up to scootering out to a wreck in the St. Lawrence. But now in hindsight that was a really big mistake which cost a man his life.

So they restrict their ice diving to a ~38F quarry where the vis is great, the bottom is basically sand, free flows are not really very common because its fairly shallow and they aren't all panicky hoovers. They still dive, minimum doubles, frequently doubles as reserve and breathing a stage. They run a line from a hole in the ice but even with marginal situational awareness you could easily exit without the line. They know where the beach is at the quarry so they cut that so they can stand up to get in-out.

Its their fun practice time. You can find Chantelle Blanchard's pictures on various boards, I don't think she's very active on SB anymore.

I probably wouldn't have gone diving with them (Ottawa is a pain to fly into) if it was dope on a rope 100ft from the hole type diving. Not all sites are suitable for ice diving the way they are doing it, ymmv.

 

[nadwidny]

Not all sites are suitable for ice diving the way they are doing it, ymmv.

I would agree. Learning from the Ontario guys' experience I wouldn't do rivers for one.

 

[rjack321]

Yeah a river ends up going from a "spring ice dive" to a "siphon ice dive" very very rapidly depending on which side of the hole you're on.

In strong siphons, even worse ones where the flow is perpendicular to the line (I don't think this is all that plausible in a cave) the gas planning, how strong of a guideline you need etc are all serious considerations. Now add in being on the edge for your gear free flowing (flowing rivers being typically colder than a still lake or quarry). Net, its not worth it for dives you can do in the summertime.

 

[djcheburashka]

Are ice diving classes more or less thorough than intro to cave? How does the money part play a role?

It's night and day. In recreational ice diving you don't care about finning techniques, redundant air, decompression procedures, running a continuous line, light protocols, buddy communication, or any of it. You just tie all the divers together with a rope, you have a team on the surface holding the rope, and you have a simplistic set of rules for communicating by pulling the rope (one tug = more slack; two tugs = something else; three tugs = rip us out). If something goes wrong, the folks on the surface who are holding one end of the rope pull it in as fast as they can and rip the divers out of the water.

To see what that's like, imagine warm-water divers getting into the caribbean, but all tied together with a rope. It's a mess. Everyone gets tangled up, the signals get lost, etc. And many of the divers use recreational regulators that aren't well-maintained, so freeflows are more than common.

As a result, a recreational ice dive usually means a dive of only a few minutes, a few feet deep, not far from the hole.

The "class," at least when I took it, was a xeroxed handout, some lecturing over breakfast, and an instructor was tied to the rope with us on the dives. Like any other PADI specialty. When I did the recreational ice diving class, I think all three dives accumulated to something like 12 minutes of bottom time. The c-card came in the mail a month later.

I'm actually considering doing it again this year, but only if I can find a group that wants to do it with proper overhead protocols instead of that dammed rope.

 

[Cave Diver]

If something goes wrong, the folks on the surface who are holding one end of the rope pull it in as fast as they can and rip the divers out of the water.

From an outsiders point of view this seems like an incredibly bad idea for so many reasons. Have their been any injuries from this?

 

[nadwidny]

From an outsiders point of view this seems like an incredibly bad idea for so many reasons. Have their been any injuries from this?

As a rule not because the divers are being hauled horizontally across the ice/water interface, not vertically from depth. So no pressure change.

 

[Cave Diver]

So is most diving done near the surface, or at depth? And what kind of depth is normally involved?

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

So is most diving done near the surface, or at depth? And what kind of depth is normally involved?

That's what I was wondering, seems the view of the ice could be the source of entertainment. Otherwise I'm not sure if I'd be yanking that rope 3 times.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

Let me get this straight. Subfreezing air temperatures, near freezing water, an icehole and in you go for less than 15 minutes.

Is there anything to see? Is the visibility good? I have heard of people doing this in wetsuits, is this still common?

Other than the social aspect of diving, what is the attraction? I get this same type question about cave diving when people ask me "What do you see"? I generally answer "Wet Rocks".