Let The revolution Begin!

[cwalker]

Let me give you a different perspective. I am a newly certified PADI OW Diver.

Although I agree with many of your points, like most "sports" or "hobbies", many people like to go into it at a minimum level to see if they will really like it.

I can see the value of the increased course, but I would not pay that to find out if I like it or not. Almost anything we learn (math, science,accounting) teaches you the basics and not the "reality".

As I have read here many times, the best way to get better at scuba is to get wet and dive.

No offense to anyone, but it seems it is the "advanced" divers who seem to be using hindsight in this area. You too were once a beginner and through years of diving have increased your skill set.

 

[IndigoBlue]

Obviously the existing agencies are not doing what is expective from the rec to full tec diver levels.

From what I have seen, I believe that NAUI and YMCA and SSI and ANDI and SDI-TDI are in fact doing a great job of training divers. And with NAUI, ANDI, and SDI-TDI you do in fact get coverage from basic to full tech.

There is always room for another great agency. GDI huh? Good luck with that.

Be careful that you do not assume yourself into a box, however. What you may wish is obvious may only be your own perception, not necessarily shared by others.

 

[IndigoBlue]

My biggest issue with the way training is done, is that they don't actually require the skills. They require the tools and call it the skills. For example, the ever popular fin pivot. What in diving requires a fin pivot? It's a _tool_ to teach you about the breath control as it relates to bouyancy control. However it is _not_ bouyancy control. If you have a student that is lacking in the trim skill, but decent with the bouyancy control thing, giving them a drill that throws trim out the window to teach breath control does nothing to aid the person that needs help with trim and _not_ breath control. Sure, it's more common that they will have both issues, but there are situations where that isn't the case, and requiring a _drill_ that isn't a skill is completely counter productive to being able to teach someone something. You _need_ to be able to adjust and adapt for the students personal strength and weaknesses.

Skills are things like neutral bouyancy and trim. You should be able to lay prone in the water without using your fins and without fipping up vertically. If you have trouble with the bouyancy, then the fin pivot is one tool an instructor can use to teach you the things you need to get to the skill. However if the trim part is the issue, then you need a _different_ tool to teach them about _that_ part.

They water down the courses to a point where they have a few drills they call skills, and those drills get most of the people somewhat competant in the water, but it's a watered down, populous approach.

By giving them a specific set of drills, you aren't an instuctor, you're a chaperone and tour guide walking them through a progression. There is no concept of a bag of tricks to get the person from never done it, to being proficent at a skill, where the path to that skill was catered by the instructor, to the student, with the drills given being specifically focused on their weaknesses.

Well, or.. I should say "It is my opinion from what I've observed.... not being an instructor or seeing first hand what instructors are truely supposed to do"

Jeff, it sounds to me like you are ready to become a great instructor.

NAUI, YMCA, SSI, ANDI, IANTD, or SDI-TDI would surely grovel and kneel to get someone like you, with your attitude, within their ITC. You were born to do this.

Think about it. You sound ready for an ITC.

 

[Genesis]

From what I have seen, I believe that NAUI and YMCA and SSI and ANDI and SDI-TDI are in fact doing a great job of training divers. And with NAUI, ANDI, and SDI-TDI you do in fact get coverage from basic to full tech.

There is always room for another great agency. GDI huh? Good luck with that.

Be careful that you do not assume yourself into a box, however. What you may wish is obvious may only be your own perception, not necessarily shared by others.

Understood, of course.

Many great ideas have no commercial application....

 

[Spectre]

Jeff, it sounds to me like you are ready to become a great instructor.

*chuckle* I did my tenure aiding society as a ski instructor for a long time. I burned out so bad that I almost quit skiing all together.

I have absolutely _no_ desire to spend money to get to a point where I start hating diving!

 

[DennisS]

Now is the time to voice your opinion. Obviously the existing agencies are not doing what is expective from the rec to full tec diver levels.

My guess would be that 95% of todays divers don't want to be tec divers. I've been diving for quite a few years, worked as a scientific diver and have no inclination to dive tec or in a dry suit. I don't consider a decompression dive on air or using doubles a tec dive. I was trained to use the tables to figure my decompression and plan my dive accordingly. The training of divers has been watered down by the dive industry because that is what people wanted. They spend lots of money on marketing studies to find out what people want.

 

[IndigoBlue]

*chuckle* I did my tenure aiding society as a ski instructor for a long time. I burned out so bad that I almost quit skiing all together.

I have absolutely _no_ desire to spend money to get to a point where I start hating diving!

I burned out on tennis after winning a local championship that I had played every day twice a day for over a year to get primed for. So I hear you, about burn-out.

I avoid burn-out in scuba by limiting my teaching to a few classes each year. I love doing it, Jeff, and you would too.

You have the right attitude, and you would make a great scuba instructor. With moderation, you would not burn out.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Now is the time to voice your opinion. Obviously the existing agencies are not doing what is expective from the rec to full tec diver levels.

My guess would be that 95% of todays divers don't want to be tec divers. I've been diving for quite a few years, worked as a scientific diver and have no inclination to dive tec or in a dry suit. I don't consider a decompression dive on air or using doubles a tec dive. I was trained to use the tables to figure my decompression and plan my dive accordingly. The training of divers has been watered down by the dive industry because that is what people wanted. They spend lots of money on marketing studies to find out what people want.

I don't think we're talking about technical diving.

Whether they want it of not they have little choice.

There is a market for better training. GUE has proven that.

I also wouldn't call a decompression dive on air technical either. I'd call it a mistake. That's a hard way to deco.

 

[Genesis]

What people "want" is a "give it to me now, cheap" course.

BUT - they're not getting what they want any more. See, in many cases the "cheap, fast, now" course won't get you on the sites you want to dive. So now what? You have to take more classes, right?

So why not get THAT AND actually learn how to dive? If you are shown REAL examples of the difference - in living color (well, ok, on a DVD!) before you buy, do you think you'd buy?

I bet a lot of people WOULD. And DVDs - or web-based video - are real cheap as marketing materials go.

 

[TechBlue]

I don't think we're talking about technical diving.

Whether they want it of not they have little choice.

There is a market for better training. GUE has proven that.

I also wouldn't call a decompression dive on air technical either. I'd call it a mistake. That's a hard way to deco.

I agree, the Agencies watered training down simply as a method to pump people through the system and enable a lot of people with piss poor training to get certified, and for the agencies to make money at the same time. It is way past the time that the agencies did a reality check. The continuing growth of GUE has proved that, the unfortunate reality is that a lot of people think that they have adequate training and this one area where ignorance is not bliss.