awap:
Steve
This is a rather interesting twist on the subject. I clearly have not been thinking of it this way. I was thinking that all internet scuba sale were in the internet camp and only in-store LDS sales were in the LDS camp.
So maybe we should talk more about what is and what is not an internet dealer that is causing scuba shop owners to struggle. It's pretty clear where you put LeisurePro in this. But I guess you are putting Scubatoys in the LDS camp rather than the internet camp. This surprises me. My impression is that Scubatoys is the biggest and most effective competitor LeisurePro has to contend with. That would make them a fairly effective competitor for most LDSs with customers willing to shop the internet. How about the e-bay sellers which range from LDSs with up front linking to their e-bay store like Phil from NJ; LDSs with concealed linkings to e-bay stores; large e-bay sellers with no LDS affiliation; and divers just selling off some excess gear. Then there are the overseas LDSs with only an internet business in the US like Diveinn.
It seems to me that what little dominance LP may still exercise is based primarily on their wide variety of offerings (a one stop shop). Much of there price advantage has been neutralized by larger LDSs that are advertising price matching. The big price advantage they had with selected brands like Scubapro due to dealer price constraints seems to have been largely neutralized by SP MSRP reductions a few years ago and some apparently effective supply interdiction.
But back to the question. What difference does it make to the average LDS whether its student buys his gear from Leisurepro or from Scubatoys (a legit service oriented shop who also has an internet front)? The loss to the shop is the same. BTW, dependent on the items and membership on this board, Scubatoys is 10% cheaper than LeisurePro.
Here's my take on ScubaToys vs. LeisurePro vs. DiversDirect. When I go to LeisurePro, I'm seeing brand name equipment that does not allow their dealers to sell online, at wholesale or near wholesale prices. There is no way any LDS can directly compete with this. When I go to ScubaToys and DiversDirect, I'm not seeing Aqualung, Seaquest or ScubaPro BCDs and reg sets in their offerings, they are honoring their dealership agreements, assuming they do sell any of those lines inhouse since the logos are on the shop info page. Other legitimate dealers of these products can still compete in those lines with ScubaToys and DiversDirect.
I used to own a pet store/aquarium shop 10-20 years back when big catalog sales in specialty fields were somewhat in their infancy. They were "competition", but nothing I personally worried about. In general, the catalog places would lowball the high ticket items, sometimes at or near my cost and then the medium ticket and lower ticket items were easily matched. I'd do the best I could for the few people who used catalogs and generally got the sale because I knew what I was talking about and could explain the equipment I carried. Now that the internet is out there the competition is much, much stiffer I suspect.
Leisure Pro does pretty much the same thing. If you scrutinize pricing on like items, say a Zeagle BCD, you'll find Leisure Pro a hundred or two lower than Scubatoys or Diversdirect (Example Zeagle ranger prices from thier websites today - LP $449 ST $608 DD $704). This says to me that base wholesale price on a Zeagle Ranger is probably in the 400-410 range (I could be wrong, I've never seen a Zeagle price list, but I'm familiar with markups).
The two stores I consider to be true retailers with an online presence choose to do a 50-70 percent markup on those items, or do enough volume to get discounts to where they can get close to a full margin on their items. They are playing by the exact same rules that any retailer could potentially play by, or at least match.
Leisure Pro, on the other hand, sells at a low enough price that it is at or near enough to wholesale that no ordinary store could afford to stock the product at that price and stay in business. It also indicates that the merchandise was obtained by non traditional means not available to the average mom and pop shop, nor allowed by many suppliers.
In the overall picture of the industry, I doubt E-bay individuals are all that big of a threat to the Local Shops. I don't really know enough about Ebay sellers to comment, but I do know for a fact that LP causes a bunch of headaches for legitimate retailers. Taking a look back to the thread, when you look at people griping the loudest about being ripped off by their LDS and actually listing prices, guess where the vast majority of the prices listed came from - LP.
That's my biggest gripe, when one business (which isn't even a full service business) can obtain product through non-traditional means not available to legitimate dealers and sell at or near the legitimate dealers' cost and gain such a large share that it affects the ability of Local Shops to stay in business... that's very unfortunate.
In the end, the consumer has to do what's best for themselves, but they should be aware that most LDS are not ripoff artists, just typical businesses attempting to survive and provide services to their customers. Should LDSs fail in great numbers, that's bad for the hobby as a whole. Selection, service, training and growth of the hobby will suffer.
later,
