LDS or Internet

[Vtdiver2]

Sorry. I don't think so unless your LDS can give E8-130cf at the lower price than $300. Moreover, you siad, PST steel 80 is not in stock except 100', didn't you?

Sure, I respect your decision. But, $1759 is not “a little more money” for some people, except you. My 2 psi..

I have no idea what the cost of a 130cf is, but I can check if you're interested. As for the 80's, you're right, they are no longer in stock. With that price they couldn't keep them in stock. They had divers from all over New England coming and buying them (not kidding)
I heard a rumor PST was raising the prices $30 next year, so if you can find them in stock somewhere, get them now.
Bottom line is most of us are from the US, and with that we have freedom of choice. You are free to buy where ever you want, from whomever you want. Like nuclear weapons and pollution, the internet isn't going away, so LDS's need to learn to adjust. My only *****(complaint) is the manufacturers that hold LDS to dealer prices, yet turn a blind eye to internet deals. Let's even the playing field and let everyone sell for what they want. If one LDS or website wants to make 1% on an item, and another wants to make 100%, let them do it. Survival of the fittest. We are supposed to be a capitalistic society.
Unfortunately, in my opinion, I see the internet doing what free agency did in major league sports. There was a time when a player in sports played for one team his whole career. Now, players have no loyalty and go wherever they are paid the most. It's the same in diving. It used to be a diver joined a family when he started diving from a dive shop. The dive shops took care of the diver, and the diver was loyal to his LDS. Now, there is little loyalty, people shop around to save a buck or two ( or more in some cases) and it seems like it's losing that family atmosphere, all in the name of the almighty buck.
When I moved to the area I now live in back in 2000, I looked around, went to a couple of shops, and one day walked into my LDS. The shop owner treated me as if I was a long lost friend, and I've been a loyal customer ever since. I'm doubly lucky that his prices compete with a lot of internet sites.
The internet is here to stay, and in some ways, it might be good, but not all in my book,
Just my 2psi (quote stolen from Hoosier)
Chris

 

[stevetim]

[font=&#48148]I am not sure how many gears you have bought so far and how many gears you have tried to buy.

Here are the recent examples of my local dive buddy except BCD that you claimed as the major item.

Wetsuit, LDS: $ 450 vs Internet: $ 250 = $200
Vest, LDS: $160 vs Internet: $120 = $40
Computer, LDS: $1600 vs Internet: $1200 = $400
Drysuit, LDS: $1800 vs Internet: $1300 = $500
Undergarment, LDS: $356 vs Internet: $250 = $106
Major brand regulator (SP, Apeks, or Atomic), LDS: $605 vs Internet: $425 = $170
Two steel tanks, LDS: $412 vs Internet: $ 300 = $224
Two AL tanks, LDS: $160 vs Internet: $ 130 = $60
Fin, LDS: $169 vs Internet: $ 110 = $59

Internet store is also LDS store in their region. So, all comes with the manufacture warranty. I don’t count the tax on LDS purchase. It is $1759 difference. Is it enough?
I hope you can get to the point this time. Or you might need to take my course, “HABIT” H oosiers A dvanced B uying in I ndiana T raining. It will give some sense about the equipment wheeling and dealing.



[/font]

Well, time to move away from the butt of the world wherever you are if you want good LDS prices. I live in South Florida and most dive shops I frequent here are very competitive with Internet fronts. If your negotiating and dealing(not haggling) skills are any good, you can make it worth your while to shop LDS. You can post all the most extreme price differences you want but the fact is good LDS's are out there and want your business.

My personal gear includes and all bought at LDS:

Zeagle Stiletto BCD $430
Aeris Atmos 2 wrist computer $290
Mares V32 Ice Proton Reg $375
Mares SPG $70
Tusa Duo-Air Inflator/Octo $150
Oneill 3/2 Full Wetsuit $99
Tusa Zippered Boots $35
Soft Weights $3/lb.
Oceanic Ion 4 Mask $40
Mares Caravelle Fins $70

I've internet shopped the same items and am hard pressed to find such an amazing price difference. I'm in no way saying internet shoppers are evil, but when you come on forums and post how despicable LDS's are for their prices you obviously haven't found the right shops and painting that broad stroke on the industry. :boxing_sm

By the way can you give me a detailed breakdown on the brands with the prices you quote?

 

[Hoosier]

You can post all the most extreme price differences you want but the fact is good LDS's are out there and want your business.

Well, it is based on our true buying experience. Do you think we didn't try any dive shops in our state? We came by almost all dive shops within 100 miles.

but when you come on forums and post how despicable LDS's are for their prices you obviously haven't found the right shops and painting that broad stroke on the industry.

That's my point..... You don't know what is going on outside your state. I think you are in the most favorable state for this sport. And then, based on your experience, you keep arguing that you don't understand why the divers didn't go to their LDS only because of $50.



For example, we have one dive shop in my town. Yes, one dive shop monopolizes the market here. Do you think how the shop runs the business? They are evil in my viewpoint. I didn’t hear any good words about that shop.



I am sure you have a good LDS over there because some items listed above were purchased in Florida shop.



In conclusion, if then, how are we going to do? Should we move to your state to support your LDS? Or can we buy the gear from the internet to save some money and keep diving?

 

[FaaGaaWee]

I have GOT to throw my 2 cents in here. I'm a hard core geek and use the internet a lot. I know about the saving. BELIEVE ME! The bottom line comes down to this. In the end where are you going to get your air fills from? My LDS does not and can not live off of air fills - Nitrox fills alone so I ask you again... If your LDS is not making money off of the equipment do you think their going to stay open just to fill your tanks?

LDS Pro...
Air Fills
Trips
Yearly Reg Maintenance
Faster Service
Training

LDS Cons...
Higher Prices

 

[The Kraken]

It all comes full circle back around to the laws of supply, demand and competition.

Those three, in combination, will always level out the market.

the K

 

[designbysue]

I have only scanned this tread to get the idea of the thoughts here. For those of you who shop on the internet, just keep in mind that you are not seeing the person/people you are dealing with and have no idea if they have any experience diving or using any of the equipment they are selling. I happened to be in NYC and stopped in to the LeisurePro shop. Believe me, the men behind the counter have never had on a neoprene suit in their lives (they are "men of faith", and I'm quite sure they do not scuba dive - though I do not want to get into a discussion on racism here as I am not racist, just describing the owners of LeisurePro). I have not tried to call them for tech support (I don't know if they offer it) so I am not talking from experince with them in that area, but I am sure if they are giving advise, it is not from their experience.

I shop my LDS(s) exclusively. I also own my own business and depend on people who value service and knowledge - so I treat my scuba purchases the same way. My shop allowed me to try the equipment first and educated me on how to use it. I know if I have any issue with anything I bought, I can take it back and they will, with no hassle, fix or replace it. I also know it is not gray market.

 

[stevetim]

Well, it is based on our true buying experience. Do you think we didn't try any dive shops in our state? We came by almost all dive shops within 100 miles.





That's my point..... You don't know what is going on outside your state. I think you are in the most favorable state for this sport. And then, based on your experience, you keep arguing that you don't understand why the divers didn't go to their LDS only because of $50.



For example, we have one dive shop in my town. Yes, one dive shop monopolizes the market here. Do you think how the shop runs the business? They are evil in my viewpoint. I didn’t hear any good words about that shop.



I am sure you have a good LDS over there because some items listed above were purchased in Florida shop.



In conclusion, if then, how are we going to do? Should we move to your state to support your LDS? Or can we buy the gear from the internet to save some money and keep diving?

Nobody that has posted yet seems to have talked to the owners of the LDS's and asked them about their prices. You know, the LDS's here didn't just wake up one day and decide to price their items the way they do. They price their items based on the customers needs vs. willingness to pay. It's called a 'market'. I also wish people would read my posts more clearly. I said if the price difference were about $50, I would buy at the LDS and see if they would throw a couple bones to me like some free tank fills, rather than just see a $50 higher price and immediately turn to the internet. Of course I wouldn't waste my $$$ at the LDS if they are going to gouge me on prices and that is not what I am suggesting you do, either. But, if you have only one LDS and he does gouge you, get together with divers who frequent the store and make the market work for you, not against you. It just seems nobody even gives examples of trying to do this.
And hell yes! Move to my state of Florida and support my LDS, they would love it! Plus, you wouldn't be upset with the diving in the area, either.

 

[Qtacevac]

ok people whats the final verdict here? Should we feel guilty for using the internet to buy gear? Should we just adopt the attitude that we have to support the LDS shops because we need air fills? I am confused because it seems that most of the people here whom have had a good experience with their internet bought gear are getting scolded for not buying from their LDS. I am a soldier in the best Army in the world and I am pretty sure this is still America, where we still have a freedom of choice.At least I hope so especially since I have been deployed twice since 9/11. But I digress, my point is simple, at least from my end of things, the fact that I am in my chosen profession limits the income I have. Ergo I need to save money in order to keep diving. I have heard the majority of people who get into this sport drop out. I and my wife love diving, and if we wish to continue doing so and not become a statistic we have to save money. I know there will be those out there who boo me and if given the chance ban me from their LDS, I can live with that, but take this into account. If you push people out of the sport because they dont see things the way you do ultimately all you are doing is hurting the sport. Friends, divers ,countrymen lend me your eyes, internet stores will not go away,and we should all strive to keep this beautiful sport alive. If there are those among us who believe internet shoppers are traitors, I am sorry for disapointing you. But I count all of you involved in this sport, regardless of where one has purchased equipment, as brothers and sisters, because in the end its all about the dive.

 

[Island Dog]

I am an instructor and boat captain working at a PADI Five Star Resort in Key Largo. We are a "resort" based operation and as such neither a LDS or IDS. I work with and assist hundreds of divers each year and have noted a trend. Divers with "internet" equipment are typically less knowledgeable about their gear and it is more frequently improperly fitted or mismatched to their needs as compared to divers who purchase from a LDS.

As I read through this thread I also noted that many of the LDS supporters had 100's of dives under their belts and many of the IDS supporters had less than a 100.

These are just observations of a dive professional that does not benefit one way or the other.

Island Dog

 

[jpsexton]

As I read through this thread I also noted that many of the LDS supporters had 100's of dives under their belts and many of the IDS supporters had less than a 100.

Island Dog

I think thats because the more experienced diver will more than likely be buying a single peice of gear to add to their current rig. Its not as much of a deal to pay extra on a single purchase. New divers on the other hand are usually looking to buy the whole shabang in one purchase and the difference then is very significant. If more of the LDS's would take care of the new divers instead of trying to make such a lick on them I don't think there would even be a LDS vs IDS debate.

John