Key Largo and AOW? What if we don't have it?

[sportxlh]

The only issue is how much liability the shop is willing to incur, and what their insurance policy mandates.

This is the main issue: many shops' insurance carriers demand certain certs for certain dives. I know that my LDS in Florida used to allow solo-drops for experienced divers they know but now only does that for solo-certified divers.

 

[boulderjohn]

But to go and dive in the United States with a company that is operating within the United States legal system and expect them to do ANY LESS than the law requires is just not fair. In this case, I'm not sure what is legal and what is not, but I do know one thing. If a dive op takes them out to dive the Spiegel Grove and takes them down to 110' and something awful happens, who do you think would be the first to blame - the divers who wanted to dive beyond their certified limits or the dive op that took them there?

There is no law concerning this in the USA.

Maximum depths are recommendations by certification agencies.

This is the main issue: many shops' insurance carriers demand certain certs for certain dives. I know that my LDS in Florida used to allow solo-drops for experienced divers they know but now only does that for solo-certified divers.

All are correct. There is no law about this. Maximum depths are only recommendations. Neither of those facts matter, though, because what does matter is the operator's insurance policy rules and following their own policies. If an operator's policy is that you need to have AOW to dive the Spiegel Grove (and some have that policy), then that is the way it is going to be--or at least it should be.

It is not just in the USA. A number of years ago the Mike Ball dive operation in Australia decided that Gabe and Tina Watson did not have to do the checkout dive required by their own policy because Gabe was Rescue Diver certified. That checkout dive was not required by law, but because it was in their stated policy and they did not follow it, the courts fined Mike Ball a large amount after Tina died.

A couple years ago a dive operator doing the Spiegel Grove reminded divers in their dive briefing that they did not allow any penetration of that ship. They did not openly state that two of their regular customers were exempt from that policy, but those divers knew penetration was OK for them. I have not heard about the progress of the lawsuit regarding the death of one of them.

So, as others have said, the prudent thing to do would be to call ahead and find out the policies of the operators you are considering. A lot of them go there, and they are not all the same in this regard.

 

[CajunDiva]

The reality is that from a legal perspective, whether or not there is a law against it is only relevant in a criminal proceeding. Allowing a diver to dive beyond their certification level would certainly open the door to a civil suit, which is why insurance companies would come into play.

 

[DeputyDan]

Get the AOW card so this won't be an issue.

That's what I did..... many moons ago!

 

[tomfcrist]

The reality is that from a legal perspective, whether or not there is a law against it is only relevant in a criminal proceeding. Allowing a diver to dive beyond their certification level would certainly open the door to a civil suit, which is why insurance companies would come into play.

The hell with the insurance companies...What about the USCG? They have been requesting C-cards and such from Captains up here if they have to evac a diver.....imagine if it was a fatality. The USCG in my area has already set the precedence that they will destroy professionally any captain they want to in case of an accident. This has led to pretty strict adherence by the boat captains in regards to C-card depth limits.

 

[gr8jab]

USCG... already set the precedence that they will destroy professionally any captain they want ...

How exactly do they do this? Since there is no law concerning C-Card, do they attack them in other ways? Excessive inspections, harassment, word-of-mouth, tertiary charges (reckless behavior, willful endangerment, etc)? Just curious.

 

[tomfcrist]

How exactly do they do this? Since there is no law concerning C-Card, do they attack them in other ways? Excessive inspections, harassment, word-of-mouth, tertiary charges (reckless behavior, willful endangerment, etc)? Just curious.

When an accident occurs on a vessel captained by a USCG licensee, the USCG does an investigation. If their investigator finds that the captain did anything wrong(like not exactly follow a rescue plan, leave the deck of the vessel while divers are in the water, or not have documentation of training the crew) they will have a trial of sorts...more of a tribunal. there is no jury, there is no way to truly defend yourself, they will strip your capt license, they will fine you, they will basically financially ruin you because you were making a sandwich when a diver surfaced in distress. this has happened...it was a witch hunt...and its flat-out wrong.

 

[skramernj]

I was in a very similar position a few years ago. I was OW, not AOW (got certified 20 years ago) and had been on the Spiegel Grove a few times (and had numerous other deep dives). I went back to the same company I had been on with the Spiegel, and they didn't want to allow me to go, due to lack of AOW. At first I was annoyed, but the realized it was probably an insurance thing. I did the AOW course over a long weekend and now don't have to worry about it anymore - that would be my suggestion to you as well.

 

[captio2000]

When we went 2 years ago, we hired a divemaster for $50 to buddy with our non-AOW diver. I don't remember if Conch Republic LDS required it but it was worth the money.

 

[scubadada]

Steve and I both mentioned Ocean Divers because we have used them. One caveat is that the operator changed hands recently. I would have to use them before I could recommend them. Their schedule has changed a little, they do the deep wrecks 5 days per week. This does include a 3 tanker on the Spiegel, Eagle, and Benwood on Wednesday. The Eagle is a pretty good dive, particularly, the bow section.

I agree with others, getting your AOW eliminates the problem permanently

Good luck, Craig