Specifically the lawyers who are defending the dive op to save the insurers millions from being squandered because the insurance company has a lot more money to fight to say the life = not just hers = but anyones is not worth much. Do you have the money to challenge their lawyers? If you do, bravo for you, you are doing a public service to fight not Papa but the corporation. Geeeezzzzzzz, are you going to start the million dollar dive march to change the reality. If so sign me up - I will get the next ticket on the airplane to take me there that is if it the plane has not been grounded. It is very easy to chat on in a forum but another thing to take up a cause to change something for the better.
Kauai accident
- Thread starter Busdiver
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frontierdiver
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I think we can all agree that what happened in Kauai was a horrible tragedy. Second guessing at this point is easy and for some people, a natural occupation. But we need to remember that when we all signed up for scubaboard we checked a box that stated our agreement with the Terms of Service (ToS) that stated in part "This is a friendly forum based on mutual respect."
It is definitely not respectful to try and exploit this sad event by smearing the reputation of the dive professional and/or dive company involved. Nor is it helpful to our industry to insinuate that PADI would knowingly and deliberately look the other way to "protect" their interests. I don't think PADI as an organization or diving as a profession and as a recreational pursuit would be as safe as it is today if PADI was only interested in protecting itself and its members. I truly believe that PADI is most interested in promoting safe and professional diving. So let's put the "professional" back into dive professional and quit trying to make insinuations about people or things we truly don't know a whole lot about.
Finally, PuMpUi, you create an interesting and meticulously laid out scenario about Dive Company A, Certifying Dive Agency B Resort, and Insurance Company C. But you
forgot to include the following aspect to the scenario:
What if Dive Company K (a local dive operator with an agenda) enters the picture and is trying to harass his competition, Dive Company A? And what if Dive Company K decided to use scubaboard to promote this agenda while failing to disclose that he had no factual basis for his many comments other than he would love nothing more than to see Dive Company A go out of business? I don't think that is what scubaboard is all about.
It is easy to sit back anonymously and take pot shots at others. I think, in this instance, since none of us were in the water when this happened, we should have enough respect for the victim, the family, the dive professionals and our own training organization to discontinue the wild speculation and accusations. Let the lawyers figure out the law, let the insurance company investigate, and let the divers dive.
Thank you for allowing me to offer my thoughts on this unfortunate event. Stay safe in diving!
It is definitely not respectful to try and exploit this sad event by smearing the reputation of the dive professional and/or dive company involved. Nor is it helpful to our industry to insinuate that PADI would knowingly and deliberately look the other way to "protect" their interests. I don't think PADI as an organization or diving as a profession and as a recreational pursuit would be as safe as it is today if PADI was only interested in protecting itself and its members. I truly believe that PADI is most interested in promoting safe and professional diving. So let's put the "professional" back into dive professional and quit trying to make insinuations about people or things we truly don't know a whole lot about.
Finally, PuMpUi, you create an interesting and meticulously laid out scenario about Dive Company A, Certifying Dive Agency B Resort, and Insurance Company C. But you
forgot to include the following aspect to the scenario:
What if Dive Company K (a local dive operator with an agenda) enters the picture and is trying to harass his competition, Dive Company A? And what if Dive Company K decided to use scubaboard to promote this agenda while failing to disclose that he had no factual basis for his many comments other than he would love nothing more than to see Dive Company A go out of business? I don't think that is what scubaboard is all about.
It is easy to sit back anonymously and take pot shots at others. I think, in this instance, since none of us were in the water when this happened, we should have enough respect for the victim, the family, the dive professionals and our own training organization to discontinue the wild speculation and accusations. Let the lawyers figure out the law, let the insurance company investigate, and let the divers dive.
Thank you for allowing me to offer my thoughts on this unfortunate event. Stay safe in diving!
Well said, frontierdiver.
RS
Guest
this is a very sad story.
scubascool
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busdiver im sad to inform you that again in another one of your comments were you missinformed because it was not in fathom five but in actual fact aquatic adventures (Kauai Garden Island News). Im sorry but it seems to be becoming a regular habbit of yours to give innacurate information. frontierdiver said It is definitely not respectful to try and exploit this sad event by smearing the reputation of the dive professional and/or dive company involved. ........it would appear the reputation was smeared the minute a woman on her first ever intro dive died by the hands of a divemaster who had the responsibility of watching two intro divers in 20 ft of water and over 30 ft of visibilty. Not only did they sign a form but so did the instructor and the instructor signed one saying he would use all his training and everything in his power to make sure that once the divers enterd the water the instructor would do everything they could to make sure the divers had a safe and enjoyable dive. you have the responsibility of only two divers in 30+ viz and you lose one well as far as im concerned the instructor is completely at fault having taken thousands diving on their first dives their is no problem that i have ever dealt with which left me unnable to attend to one. It truly is a tradgic incident and my deepest sympathies to friends and family of the (victim) and i just hope that the "instructor" (s**n) learns from his mistake if you go in the water with two under the water you keep you focus always on two no excuse absoluelty none. o yeah and frontierdiver its sad that someones died and here you are thinking only about a scuba feud have you no integrity?
o yeh and my name is nick you know who i am see i actually have integrity and i dont need to be anonymous o and i look forward to seeing you soon
ps if you decide to just igonore everything else i just typed atleast know this. just because you have a plastic card that says you an instructor or a divemater doesnt make you qualified a plastic card doesnt save lives only the actions of instructors do and again my deepest sympathies to the family for their loss.
o yeh and my name is nick you know who i am see i actually have integrity and i dont need to be anonymous o and i look forward to seeing you soon
ps if you decide to just igonore everything else i just typed atleast know this. just because you have a plastic card that says you an instructor or a divemater doesnt make you qualified a plastic card doesnt save lives only the actions of instructors do and again my deepest sympathies to the family for their loss.
OP
My reference to Fathom Five was only to highlight where I heard the story from, not that they were the shop involved in the incident. This is evident if you follow the thread and pay attention to the wording. We are very fortunate to have your input on this post since it appears you were actually in the water when it happened and you know the person involved.
Welcome to the Board.
frogman159
Contributor
Thank you for clarifying this, I did this very 2 tank discover SCUBA dive with Fathom Five 2 years ago and I felt they were truely top notch. I had a fantastic experience with them and was a little shocked to read busdriver's original post.
When I showed up, to my pleasant surprise, I was assigned not only an instructor, but an assistant instructor/DM as well. I was very comfortable having two highly competant divers looking after just me.
OP
Frogman, Again that was not what I posted but sorry if there was confusion. Congrats on finally getting certified. You will enjoy it. Yes, my wife and I both enjoyed the folks from Fathom Five. After reading all the bickering and accusations by "professionals" on Kauai I would be leery about diving with any other shop on the island. O-rings, who is a dive master out of Fathom Five, is the only professional to represent his side of the story without coming across as being condescending and making inflammatory remarks about other professionals. None of the folks from Kauai (other than O-rings) has stated their role during the incident but they all have pretty well defined opinions. Makes you wonder about the folks you get in the water with when you are on that island.
What is this thread about? I believe it is about a tragic death of a new diver. No matter the circumstances, the Divemaster is going to struggle with, “If I only…” syndrome forever. That in it self is bad enough but for others to be knocking him around challenging his decisions is not going to help him get over it anytime soon.
Here, in this forum we should examine and discuss the incident, but only to help others avoid the same. If is not useful or helpful to personally pick apart any particular dive shop or individual. It is useful to discuss how we can avoid these issues in the future.
In this case, I don’t know if the Divemaster could or should have done something different. Clearly, we don’t know for sure as the Divemaster involved has not posted his account. I doubt he could until any investigations and or legal actions are concluded. What we do know is that a woman died during a dive, in the company of a Divemaster. That’s it.
Off the topic:
I have been to Kauai several times. I love the island and I love the diving there and plan on bringing my family and my brothers family there this July. We plan on doing a significant amount of diving and hope to meet and dive with as many ScubaBoard members, dive operations and others as possible. My decision to dive or not dive with one shop or another will not be based on the ramblings of a disgruntled ex-employee or anyone else. It will be based on how well I believe that dive operation will serve me and my families diving needs. So far, my experience with Kauai’s dive shops has been excellent save one. (And I told that minor problem has since been resolved.)
I would encourage all of the dive shops on Kauai to continue to post on ScubaBoard. The fast majority of divers that post here love and really appreciate it when they get first hand dive information from the dive shops rather than the typical, “Yea, I used so and so and they were great”.
Here, in this forum we should examine and discuss the incident, but only to help others avoid the same. If is not useful or helpful to personally pick apart any particular dive shop or individual. It is useful to discuss how we can avoid these issues in the future.
In this case, I don’t know if the Divemaster could or should have done something different. Clearly, we don’t know for sure as the Divemaster involved has not posted his account. I doubt he could until any investigations and or legal actions are concluded. What we do know is that a woman died during a dive, in the company of a Divemaster. That’s it.
Off the topic:
I have been to Kauai several times. I love the island and I love the diving there and plan on bringing my family and my brothers family there this July. We plan on doing a significant amount of diving and hope to meet and dive with as many ScubaBoard members, dive operations and others as possible. My decision to dive or not dive with one shop or another will not be based on the ramblings of a disgruntled ex-employee or anyone else. It will be based on how well I believe that dive operation will serve me and my families diving needs. So far, my experience with Kauai’s dive shops has been excellent save one. (And I told that minor problem has since been resolved.)
I would encourage all of the dive shops on Kauai to continue to post on ScubaBoard. The fast majority of divers that post here love and really appreciate it when they get first hand dive information from the dive shops rather than the typical, “Yea, I used so and so and they were great”.
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