Kauai accident

[KarenCD]

Bus Driver,

Good morning - the dive operation was mentioned in the television coverage and the Garden Island news as well as other news outlets. I do not know why there wasn't any follow up news coverage particularly since the accident was on - television, newspapers and cdnn and no follow up? Slipping through the cracks with misinformation and the spin doctor's - tragic things happen and little good is accomplished without controversy. So let the debates begin.

 

[Papa_Bear]

Well my point is made! One thing is said to one person who throws in a what if and another ass-u & me and it all boils down to we don't know unless we were there, but many seem quick to blame someone! Usually PADI! This one has too many missing pieces and the news media is useless and only cares about selling a paper or having you turn in to them! The people involved can't speak up because of potential law suits, so what do you do? Take responsibility for your own actions? Maybe not no money in that!

 

[fisherdvm]

As of right now, all the news are based on the same story. Something very bad happened, and CPR was performed for cardiac arrest. Usually the outcome is very bad. So my guess is that she didn't walk out of the hospital, if she was admitted in critical condition. All I simply said was, Busdriver might be mistaking another story. I didn't want to stir up any controversy on this case. My condolences for the family if she has not recovered. As far as if the instructor did right or wrong, I will let PADI quality assurance program work.

 

[Busdiver]

Fisher you didn't stir up anything. The story is the same. I just checked on cdnn and I am amazed there is no follow up. None. They do list the dive op. I can't even say the spin doctors are at work here since there is no dialogue (other than here on scubaboard) on this accident. I don't know.

The questions then come down to how much authority does an instructor have to say no to the dive op they are employed. If this lady was so obviously not capable of participating in the course, and the instructor said no, then would the dive op support the instructor. My personal belief is the instructor would be out on his/her ear looking for a new gig. I will also so this is not just a PADI issue, but an industry issue in an attempt to survive financially.

 

[Papa_Bear]

The question is why did she say yes? And if she did, why is that someone else's problem! I am noticing a lot of people don't want to deal with self responsibility!

 

[Teamcasa]

.. What if a client Put's all No's and clearly has a yes that you can see and observe from looking at and talking to the person. What would you do?

Have them sign this form:

LARGE PRINT:
DIVING IS A DANGEROUS ACTIVITY AND I PLAN ON DOING TODAY, REGARDLESS OF THE ACCEPTED RULES AND GUIDELINES.

Small Print:
I recognize and acknowledge that I have not been honest filling out my medical information form. Attested by my signature below I realize and understand that diving today may very well end up severely injuring and or killing me. I also attest that I or any of my relatives, successors or the neighbor down the street will hold the instructor responsible for my death, injuries or stupidity.

TeamCasa they already sign a waiver that states that info, But isnt it a Scuba pro's job and or liabilty to prevent problems from happening in the first place? regardless of the waiver they signed or not.

The question about shooting to the surface and letting them go because they signed a waiver was KaiKane's hypothetical question to TeamCasa's release of liability suggestion on the first page of the thread. Wasn't about the tragic incident.

Just to set the record straight, I was being cynical in my post. The question kAIkANE posed was What would you do? – I would not allow them to dive with me if I felt they had lied on their initial form and the hypothetical second form would be my way of telling them, sorry we can not dive together.

 

[KarenCD]

Teamcasa,

It was evident you and Kaikane were being cynical when Kaikane responded he agreed with you both. Sometimes being cynical is the only way to make a good point......

 

[kAIkANE]

Papabear Usually stories that have alot of holes are BS. After doing some reasearch in the garden island newspaper archives. Kauai Garden Island News The very same company was involved in another accident in april 2006. Hmmmm! in my opinion ,I am no indian, but where there is smoke there is fire!

#2 you said "The question is why did she say yes? And if she did, why is that someone else's problem! I am noticing a lot of people don't want to deal with self responsibility!"

The ethics is what i am questioning on the situation.
As pumpui stated in his first posting.
do you "a) ignore it
b) Call the number the diver gave and hope that it rings
c) tell the diver they need proper med clearence"

The way i see it , ethically there is only one choice there.

Self responsibility huh??? if anything happened to the guy in Pumpui example. how many of you would be on shore/ the boat holding that med form up saying they Put all No's. Look see for yourself. They lied to me! It's not my fault!

Look at Pumpui description of this poor person, I am not a doctor either, but Jesus heaven help the next one

Whatever happened to honor, ethics, and integrity

 

[kAIkANE]

Busdriver if there is a question about a divers safety the dive shop shouldn't even have a say in it. unless they are the ones actually getting in the water with them. I would have a "do it yourself "
approach. and if that got me fired good, I dont want to work for people like that! There are jobs everywhere for Instructors and DM's

Papabear who is blaming PADI?

 

[Papa_Bear]

Just a general rule around here, blame PADI, but here becomes the problem, do we know if they did screen the person? In todays world people will sue you if you "Discriminate" by age, Health, or any number of other reasons! A woman Photographer just got fined for refusing to take wedding pictures at a gay wedding in New Mexico! So the woman insists that the "Last thing she wants to do in her life is dive" and you say no because she is not fit! Then under the Americans with Disabilities Act you can't refuse to teach her without facing a problem! So again if she insists then I guess you move forward? With that said where was the pool work? What were the conditions? Again without being directly involved how can we judge and as far as two problems doesn't mean a thing! I see golfers on the course right after lighting killed one! Personal responsibility is the answer! Reading the release and understanding that when you step out of the plane at 10000ft you might die! So when you go underwater you can't breath it!

The said thing is the family will not recover against the operator even if they didn't do everything right! Wrongful death suits are long expensive and guess what the value of her life is not much, because of her age and health! A lawyer will say she would have died in a year or two anyway so what value can you award? That is a fact! I real life this would be a hard case for an attorney to make any money on! So their insurance will pay to settle and we may never know the truth!