Kauai accident

[kAIkANE]

i agree with both of you.

Scuba Dale has more of an approach i can agree with though. As A Scuba Pro can clearly see there is a yes with out even having to read the MED form they signed.

TeamCasa they already sign a waiver that states that info, But isnt it a Scuba pro's job and or liabilty to prevent problems from happening in the first place? regardless of the waiver they signed or not.

If your leading a tour U/W and someone fills their BCD up and rockets to the surface. Should your attitude be oh-well they signed the waiver?

And yes the release could be trusted since it coming from an MD

 

[PuMpUi]

To answer Kaikane’s question about a diver who put’s all “no’s” down on the med –release form …

If YOU had a 69 year old diver that had answered all “No’s” on the med-release, but you noticed there was a “lump” over the diver’s heart about the size of a cell phone, would you:

(a) ignore it,
(b) hope that it rings when you call the telephone number that the diver gave you, or
(c) refuse to take the diver into the water based on your observations, at least until the diver was able to provide a proper medical clearance?

I vacation on Kauai frequently, and know a number of the local Pro’s. I was diving at this site at the time of the drowning. Here is what I have been told by those who were more closely involved in this tragedy:

1.There was no med-release from the victim, according to the police
2.The dive buddy said that the dive master left the victim unattended underwater
3.The non-certified dive buddy also said the dive master left “him” unattended when he went down to recover the victim
4.Those who knew the victim said that it was “obvious” that she suffered from something like “Parkinsons’s Disease” or maybe MS, and that she slurred her words and had trembling hands and arms
5.Those who knew the victim have said that she suffered from partial paralysis on one side of her body and spoke out of one side of her mouth/face due to this paralysis

Was she qualified to dive? You tell me.

Will V&B defend? They have to.

Does the victim deserve better than the “spin doctoring” that has been going on?

When the family sues, and I am sure that they will, would any amount of damages bring her back to them?

It USED to be that we felt safe and secure when diving with a PADI professional ... lately, I am beginning to think that we are better off diving ALONE !!!!

 

[Busdiver]

I find it wild to hear all of these new disclosures since there has been no discussion on it for a few weeks since the incident. From what I was told there were six reports taken by PADI. Five matched, one did not match. The one that did not match was "facing legal action." What that means I do not know. I was told that PADI inspectors dove with the instructor involved and cleared that person to continue to work.

I plan on sending an email to the guy we dove with to let him know that the info. he provided me is a little flawed. I am interested to know how he will respond.

 

[PuMpUi]

Hmmm ... I understand that there was only ONE PADI/V&B "investigator" sent out, representing V&B interests and his report "may not" be as interested in representing the truth as you might hope/expect it to be, but may lean more towards "mitigating" the losses of his clients.

As far as any discrepencies are concerned, it is typical for witnesses to have varying reports, depending upon their involvement and their "perspective" on the incidents; however, to think that "facing legal action" because of a varying report of an eye witness is a bit extreme ... I doubt that any legal action would transpire ... the testimony would simply be discarded as "unreliable" and that would probably be the end of it. ... unless the "investigator" found something "really wrong" with something about the entire incident.

From what I have heard, there was no "instructor" involved .... only a dive master.

Isn't it simply "amazing" at how things get tossed and turned around from the spin doctors?

What ever happened to honesty ... truth ... and acceptance of one's own actions? Sadly, this will most likely take a lawsuit to force the truth to be brought out. This decision will be left up to the victim's family to make.

 

[kAIkANE]

I wouldn't find it to wild about this thread today

You said yourself this morning when you posted this

"I was diving in Kauai last week and was told the rest of the story. She is fine and out of the hospital. Per the instructor I was diving with, she was not diving his shop but was at the Landing that day. When filling out her medical she did not report being on certain meds and that she was in treatment for certain mental health issues. While diving she panicked and rushed to the surface. At the surface she struggled and EMS was called. She was alert when she was sent to the hospital. At the hospital she responded negatively to her treatment (from what I heard it did not involve a chamber but due to the meds that were not disclosed). She has been released from the hospital and has returned home. The dive instructors have been cleared and were out diving last week when I was in the water."

This is probably why there is a splurge of discussion on this subject. Since it was far from the truth and she is far from home. I know that is why I started in on it!

 

[jcscuba]

No, it is the same incident. I assure you! and to answer your bet on people checking all No's, I would say that does happen sometimes, but the truth of the matter is they do not have to go see a doctor here to get signed off. They have doctors on the mainland that are completely aware of their situation and all it takes is a simple fax to the mainland and problem is solved.

Now to elaborate, What if a client Put's all No's and clearly has a yes that you can see and observe from looking at and talking to the person. What would you do?

That is an excellent question. I don't care what they put down. If in my opinion, they are this lady's age, morbidly obese, smokers, I tell them as a condition of my teaching them, their safety as well as mine is of paramount importance. Fortunately this isn't yet regulated completely by the government and we don't have to become politically correct dive instructors. When the government gets in, then I'm out.

 

[PuMpUi]

jcscuba ...

You mentioned "safety" ...

I was once told that "lessons are paid for ... but certifications are EARNED !!!"

Perhaps we all have been in classes where someone(s) came in unprepared and ended up not "earning" their performance based certifications and then belly-ached about having to "pay" for the class anyway !

Who wants a "dive buddy" that "bought" their C-card? Certainly NOT me !!!

Who wants to dive with a DM or Instructor that abandons you? I think I will dive alone .... the odds are in my favor!!!

 

[Papa_Bear]

I have no knowledge of the incident except what is here! One question it was said "She shot to the surface" and then "He left the buddy alone to retrieve the body"???? From the bottom? Or on the surface? If on the surface whats the problem? I don't get it the pieces don't fit! Why was a DM giving lesions? What am I missing here?

 

[KarenCD]

Papa Bear

The question about shooting to the surface and letting them go because they signed a waiver was KaiKane's hypothetical question to TeamCasa's release of liability suggestion on the first page of the thread. Wasn't about the tragic incident.

 

[Busdiver]

The shooting to the surface quote came from me and appears to be inaccurate but based on the info. I was provided.

The retrieving from the bottom statement came in later on and I am assuming to be more accurate. Is there any links to media outlets that discuss her passing?

I stated earlier about it being wild that there was so much discussion now. What I meant was that I originally posted the accident weeks ago. An update was posted that she was in a coma. Fisher posted his remarks yesterday. That led me to post what I was told (obviously incorrect). I just wonder why no one updated this incident for the two weeks in between the update to Fisher's comment.

Since there are so few dive ops on Kauai, can we post which operation was involved?

I liked the statement about "earning" certification. So true.

One bonus to this thread is that two folks came out of lurking and joined us. Welcome. I enjoy your insight.