Is there a LDS in Dallas that stocks BP/W equipment?

[texdiveguy]

Poorly informed? Hmmm I've seen the BC's first hand for use with multiple setup, single, doubles, and I've LOGGED over 100 dives in a zeagle BC, I even took a zeagle BC with doubles on it into CAVES. No where did I dispute the quality of construction. The other divers I was around modified their wing because, the zeagle tech did not properly get the job done for a single tank, they had the problems with the bladder size.

Its weakness are also evident

When someone asks about a Back Plate and Wing setup for singles, and to step up and offer up the zeagle tech as a solution, thats someone who does not know how to assemble a streamlined optimized balanced rig, its someone trying to make a sale, OR, they really don't know what the heck they are talking about, or both, if he wanted to know about over sized wings for singles on a back inflate BC, sure offer the zeagle tech.

I've seen your rig, you need all those D rings so for you it might be the right solution, but this guy asked about BPW.

I will again say that the size of the wing is not an issue with this platform,,,,and you seem to be very concerned with the number of D-rings,,,,,that I find unusual....4-8-12 whatever,,,just because they are in place does not req. the wearer to use them all but they offer flexability. I have seen your kit as well...hmmmm . My comments to the poster whom is someone I know persn. regarding the option of looking into a Tech was in responce to his question to me. You and your buddy have made your point of not knowing what you are talking about in concerns to a bc you have never used very clear. It is obv. to me and I am sure by now the original poster that you have nothing to offer but what you 'know' to be totally correct...gee. I am glad your Zeagle system carried you saftely thru a cave and back without failure,,,,and I truley hope your super streamlined kit continues to meet your needs. My kit is equally effective for both serious sport and tech. I hope the poster will investigate the options of several gear set-ups. I bet he will decide on the merits of each and pick a system good for him,,,,not ness. for us.

 

[loosebits]

You are again entitled to your assumptions and what-if's,,,,we could go for days on the merits and bads of this bc and bp/w types of gear. I don't know of anyone loading 60# of wgt. or having the bladder inflate to 65# by accident....and in terms of belts...if you feel one is better than 2---that is wonderful. The fact of the matter is I own one and have had it in service for over 130 dives in all sorts of conditions and several gear configurations and have found it to be a great bc. If the poster whom I know wishes to persue a traditional bcd,,a bp/w or a Tech that will be determined by gathering of fair information,,,not that of degative info. from someone whom has never even used the unit. I have dove everthing from traditional jacket to bi to bp/w and this Zeagle Tech,,,,all have goods and bads. I don't need you to demonstrate anything to me,,,and please share with us your last trip up on a run-away bladder and single tank, I am sure we might all gain from your self rescue techniques,,,after your experience is shared I would be happy to share my similar run-away air cell incident.

My only run-away ascent was when I was first diving dry after about 4 min into the dive (luckily). I thought it was the drysuit I couldn't get air out of.. ended up cracking my neck seal (turned out I was almost at the surface at this point) and let in 55 deg water for nothing. Once I had regained my composure, I realized it was my BC that was trapping air (coincidently, it was a Zeagle). Not sure what your point is thought, perhaps you've misunderstood mine.

My point is this: thing was designed to be marketed, not to be dived. Not necessarily that these marketing features will kill you but they are just completely unneeded. If you can't possibly use 60# of weight, why would it be included? The only reason I can think of is when an unsuspecting diver looks at BC1 that only takes 20# of lead and the Zeagle Tech that can handle 60# they think "ah, that must be better". Again, I'm not saying it can cause an accident, I'm just saying that it gives you a glimpse of what decisions went into the design of this rig.

I do feel that people would be more comfortable with a much smaller wing. Giant wings like that will tend to trap air but perhaps Zeagle has found a way around that (they hadn't when I had my one whoopsie) - great but why not just use a smaller wing instead? Simple, a 65# wing sounds better to someone who doesn't know any better.

And I'm not trying to demonstrate anything to you. You have your rig, you like it and you're not going to change your mind - glad you feel you've gotten your money's worth. I'm trying to demonstrate to others who read your recomendation that perhaps BC's like the Zeagle Tech aren't designed to fill the needs of the diver but simply designed to sell - and sell for a whole lot of money at that.

If the poster whom I know wishes to persue a traditional bcd,,a bp/w or a Tech that will be determined by gathering of fair information,,,not that of degative info

That was already gathered in the subject line... he wants a bp/wing. Why would you say the Zeagle Tech might be the answer?

 

[FIXXERVI6]

I will again say that the size of the wing is not an issue with this platform,,,,and you seem to be very concerned with the number of D-rings,,,,,that I find unusual....4-8-12 whatever,,,just because they are in place does not req. the wearer to use them all but they offer flexability. I have seen your kit as well...hmmmm . My comments to the poster whom is someone I know persn. regarding the option of looking into a Tech was in responce to his question to me. You and your buddy have made your point of not knowing what you are talking about in concerns to a bc you have never used very clear. It is obv. to me and I am sure by now the original poster that you have nothing to offer but what you 'know' to be totally correct...gee. I am glad your Zeagle system carried you saftely thru a cave and back without failure,,,,and I truley hope your super streamlined kit continues to meet your needs. My kit is equally effective for both serious sport and tech. I hope the poster will investigate the options of several gear set-ups. I bet he will decide on the merits of each and pick a system good for him,,,,not ness. for us.

The size of the wing may not be an issue for you but it is for me, and it is for others others. The number of D rings = $ why pay for 12 when you need 3 - 5, unless you got money to burn I guess.

Please, share your comments about my Kit, don't want to hijack a thread (well may be too late for that) but I'm open to opinions and modifications of my rig, I have done many, and have a few things planned, the day I know it all, is the day I really have something to learn, so please share your wisdom with me, I'll even take pictures and start another thread so you can go over it in great detail.

My entire beef with the zeagle tech is that is the last BC that should be offered up when someone asks about shops to try a BPW in, if it works for you great, it doesn't work for me, several others, and is not a replacement for a BPW if that is what someone is looking for.

 

[texdiveguy]

One last closing thought,,,,ALL companies that manufacture goods---market them,,,,this is the way business works....being in sales I know this and I bet you would agree. I don't agree that Zeagle just sat down and said...hey lets build this product that as you infer by comment meets few divers needs....build in features that are unusable for the diver and lets go spend meg bucks tooling/marketing and supporting it distrbution for a number of years. Things in business don't go that way. The unit has obvs. seen good success to the intended market---serious sport and tech divers. I know several other divers around the country whom have found the platform a comfortable fit for their needs (rec./sport/tech). People will in the dive community not purchase a product that does not perform,,,it is intersting to see how fast info. about a 'bad' piece of scuba gear will travel the country. Bp/w are great....been around years and will be,,,,this bc is great,,,will be in the line-up I am sure for years to come.

I rest my case....BAILIFF!!!

 

[loosebits]

One last closing thought,,,,ALL companies that manufacture goods---market them,,,,this is the way business works....being in sales I know this and I bet you would agree. I don't agree that Zeagle just sat down and said...hey lets build this product that as you infer by comment meets few divers needs....build in features that are unusable for the diver and lets go spend meg bucks tooling/marketing and supporting it distrbution for a number of years. Things in business don't go that way. The unit has obvs. seen good success to the intended market---serious sport and tech divers. I know several other divers around the country whom have found the platform a comfortable fit for their needs (rec./sport/tech). People will in the dive community not purchase a product that does not perform,,,it is intersting to see how fast info. about a 'bad' piece of scuba gear will travel the country. Bp/w are great....been around years and will be,,,,this bc is great,,,will be in the line-up I am sure for years to come.

I rest my case....BAILIFF!!!

I guess you've never heard of Bose then... any audiophile will tell you that Bose are overpriced peices of junk made with components you would find in a bottom-of-the-line Japanese system but 95% of poeple who walk into Best Buy looking for speakers thinks Bose are *the* speaker system to own. That's because audiophiles don't buy speakers from BestBuy but will spend far less on a much better system.

Along the same line, what about titanium or tungsten regs or regs with rubbies in them? Has anyone ever said "man I really like this reg if only the first stage were a few ounces lighter" or "you know what I need, more semi-precious stones in my kit" How about a titanium backplate? Were divers complaining that AL backplates aren't strong enough or corrode too easily? These are ideas come up with by marketers, nothing else. That's what your Zeagle Tech is. And I bet every person who doesn't openly regret the purchase of their Zeagle Tech falls into *at least* one of three categories: They sell it, they don't know any better yet (e.g. they think trapping air is normal) or they simply won't admit that they spent $900 on something they didn't need and they fell victom to Zeagles marketing tactics - no one wants to be a sucker (or admit that they are one).

You know, I searched Deco Stop for references to the "Zeagle Tech" in the subject to see if people were really using them for "technical" diving (not that only tech divers hang out there or that everyone on the board knows anything but its a good reference) as not once have I seen one in cave country and I found a whopping 5 threads that specifically ask about the Tech in the subject. Here;s how they break down:

1 thread asking about using their Tech wing on a regular backplate (you can't) - guess they didn't care for the system and didn't want to eat the entire cost of it
1 thread asking about replacing it with a Transpac/rec wing
2 threads trying to sell the thing
1 thread posted by you (of the 7 replies to your thread, only one person liked his although almost all of the replies admitted to once owning one)

I think that this refutes your point that its seen "good success to the intended market---serious sport and tech divers", at least on the tech divers end. I have no doubt it's seen good success on it's intended market but I disgree what the intended market is - it's the same as Bose's - the uneducated who wants the best money will buy.

Man I love a good argument

 

[texdiveguy]

I guess you've never heard of Bose then... any audiophile will tell you that Bose are overpriced peices of junk made with components you would find in a bottom-of-the-line Japanese system but 95% of poeple who walk into Best Buy looking for speakers thinks Bose are *the* speaker system to own. That's because audiophiles don't buy speakers from BestBuy but will spend far less on a much better system.

Along the same line, what about titanium or tungsten regs or regs with rubbies in them? Has anyone ever said "man I really like this reg if only the first stage were a few ounces lighter" or "you know what I need, more semi-precious stones in my kit" How about a titanium backplate? Were divers complaining that AL backplates aren't strong enough or corrode too easily? These are ideas come up with by marketers, nothing else. That's what your Zeagle Tech is. And I bet every person who doesn't openly regret the purchase of their Zeagle Tech falls into *at least* one of three categories: They sell it, they don't know any better yet (e.g. they think trapping air is normal) or they simply won't admit that they spent $900 on something they didn't need and they fell victom to Zeagles marketing tactics - no one wants to be a sucker (or admit that they are one).

You know, I searched Deco Stop for references to the "Zeagle Tech" in the subject to see if people were really using them for "technical" diving (not that only tech divers hang out there or that everyone on the board knows anything but its a good reference) as not once have I seen one in cave country and I found a whopping 5 threads that specifically ask about the Tech in the subject. Here;s how they break down:

1 thread asking about using their Tech wing on a regular backplate (you can't) - guess they didn't care for the system and didn't want to eat the entire cost of it
1 thread asking about replacing it with a Transpac/rec wing
2 threads trying to sell the thing
1 thread posted by you (of the 7 replies to your thread, only one person liked his although almost all of the replies admitted to once owning one)

I think that this refutes your point that its seen "good success to the intended market---serious sport and tech divers", at least on the tech divers end. I have no doubt it's seen good success on it's intended market but I disgree what the intended market is - it's the same as Bose's - the uneducated who wants the best money will buy.

Man I love a good argument

Its really very sad you are so insecure and quite excitable,,,,you need to stop the sly remarks toward my character. I don't consider your insults or comments worthy of any further discussion. I publically apoligize to the poster of this thread for being apart of this 3 way transvers, it is so unlike my normal charactor.

 

[loosebits]

I'm not insecure and I don't see any sly remarks or ad hominem attacks. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings, just having a civil argument.

 

[Jarrett]

Wow this thread took a turn since I last checked it I haven't had a chance to read it all yet, but thanks to everyone for their passionate responses.

I wish I would have read the ScubaToys post before I showed up there today. Joe's son (I've forgotten his name) worked for a quite a bit to assemble a Zeagle BP/W for me. He and I both were pretty new to this equipment it seemed. Once he got it all together, I tried it on and it was weird to say the least. Kinda stiff and clunky and the waist strap came around my sternum area. Is it supposed to do that?

Based on this experience, I don't know if the BP/W is what I am looking for. I'm willing to check it out again, but if that was as good as it gets... I'll stick with my Brigade

 

[FIXXERVI6]

Wow this thread took a turn since I last checked it I haven't had a chance to read it all yet, but thanks to everyone for their passionate responses.

I wish I would have read the ScubaToys post before I showed up there today. Joe's son (I've forgotten his name) worked for a quite a bit to assemble a Zeagle BP/W for me. He and I both were pretty new to this equipment it seemed. Once he got it all together, I tried it on and it was weird to say the least. Kinda stiff and clunky and the waist strap came around my sternum area. Is it supposed to do that?

Based on this experience, I don't know if the BP/W is what I am looking for. I'm willing to check it out again, but if that was as good as it gets... I'll stick with my Brigade

This very exprience you had with it is why I suggested you get with someone that knows the rigs.

For a single tank OW dive setup, your brigade will have a higher level of comfort, espeically if you dive only a skin.

 

[texdiveguy]

Wow this thread took a turn since I last checked it I haven't had a chance to read it all yet, but thanks to everyone for their passionate responses.

I wish I would have read the ScubaToys post before I showed up there today. Joe's son (I've forgotten his name) worked for a quite a bit to assemble a Zeagle BP/W for me. He and I both were pretty new to this equipment it seemed. Once he got it all together, I tried it on and it was weird to say the least. Kinda stiff and clunky and the waist strap came around my sternum area. Is it supposed to do that?

Based on this experience, I don't know if the BP/W is what I am looking for. I'm willing to check it out again, but if that was as good as it gets... I'll stick with my Brigade

Wow.. you would think that as big as ScubaToys is, and even with Joe's son involved they would have someone on staff more familiar with gear set-up.....even at our mid sized local LDS we do customer rig set-ups all the time,,,,piece of cake. There is a learning curve involved in the feel of a bp/w or tech bc both dry and wet. At least you finally got it on and may have answered some of your own questions.