Is the air 2 a good octo?

[MikeS]

Obviously the air 2 works as they’re still on the market and I’ve yet to talk to anybody that has died from using one.
The questions are:

1. Is the elimination of the hose associated with a second second-stage regulator worth the complications that result in an OOA situation?

IMO no. I think that it’s a solution to a non-problem. Having the air dump and regulator connected most certainly complicate buoyancy control. Sure you can train to deal with it but why?

2. Is the air 2 the “best” option?

IMO no. A long hose with bungeed backup is the best option. I base this on trying the three options, air 2, traditional octo, and long hose. I suggest you try all three options at which point it will become obvious which is the best solution. While sharing air in a simulated OOA situation swim 100 yards horizontally to an up line and then safely surface to include safety stop(s) to simulate returning to the anchor line. Then while sharing air in a simulated OOA situation, float a surface marker and safely surface to include safety stop(s) to simulated surfacing in a current or an area with a lot of boat traffic such as Cozumel.

Mike

 

[detroit diver]

The HUB is still on the market too!!

 

[MikeS]

detroit diver once bubbled...
The HUB is still on the market too!!

The same questions, more or less, apply and the answers are, No and hell No.

Mike

 

[jplacson]

But the HUB is relatively new compared to the AIR2.

 

[ew1usnr]

MikeS once bubbled...
I base this on trying the three options, air 2, traditional octo, and long hose. I suggest you try all three options at which point it will become obvious which is the best solution.

You would keep your Air2 and donate your primary. You can have your primary on a 5-foot hose. Then there will not be any difference between using the Air2 and the long-hose octo.

I'm not saying that the Air2 is "the best", or that there are not circumstances where an Air2 would be at a disadvantage, or that everyone should do away with their octos and convert to Air2's. I am just trying to point out that the Air2 is not as completely horrible as some of these posts may lead one to believe. In my opinion, it is a nice breathing regulator, and is not difficult to operate. It's disadvantage is that when disconnecting a stuck inflator, you also disable your octopus. An advantage is that you CAN disconnect the octopus in the event that it were to free-flow. You would then also lose your auto-inflator, but you can still use the manual inflator so the advantage outweighs the inconvenience (in my opinion).

There is one item of concern regarding an Air2 that I have not seen discussed. It is not as much a problem with an auto-inflator or an inflator-integrated octopus like a Sherwood Shadow. BUT, if you disconnect an Air2 underwater you are letting water directly into a second stage regulator. You might get away with it in clean spring water, but if it is salt water you will have to immediately flush it out completely with fresh water (while holding down the purge button) after the dive. If you allow salt water to remain in the regulator for any length of time the parts will corrode together and you may not be able to get them apart. A more immediate concern is if a drop of salt water dries on the knife-edge of the LP nozzle. If the edge of this nozzle corrodes, then the regulator will leak and the nozzle will have to be replaced (it is replaceable on an Air2, which is nice). Getting mud in there from a freshwater dive will act as sand paper between the LP seat and nozzle and could also result in leaks and replacements. Don't have your Air2 disconnected underwater unless it is an emergency (stuck inflator or uncontrolled air leak/free-flow).

 

[MikeS]

ew1usnr once bubbled...
You would keep your Air2 and donate your primary. You can have your primary on a 5-foot hose. Then there will not be any difference between using the Air2 and the long-hose octo.

IMO using a five-foot hose on the primary with an Air 2 is a better solution than with a standard length hose as it would allow both divers to individual control buoyancy while sharing air. However there is still a significant difference between an Air 2 and a bungeed backup. The complication of having the second stage attached to the inflator hose is still there with a long hose and an Air 2. Even though this complication can be overcome with training, why?

If I already had a Air 2 I could see “making due” with it till I could afford a better option. But I cannot see anyone that knows better buying one to start with. The extra hose is simply not a problem so why solve it? Why not go with the best option from the start?

Mike

 

[ew1usnr]

MikeS once bubbled...
While sharing air in a simulated OOA situation swim 100 yards horizontally to an up line and then safely surface to include safety stop(s) to simulate returning to the anchor line.

I admit that a 7-foot octopus hose would make this easy. But if the other person really was out of air, would you really take the time to swim underwater to the anchor line? Why not just come up and swim to the boat on the surface? If you have not entered a decompression catagory, a safety stop is nice but not neccessary. Would you really be concerned about doing an un-neccessary safety stop while one person was out of air? Why not just come up?

Then while sharing air in a simulated OOA situation, float a surface marker and safely surface to include safety stop(s) to simulated surfacing in a current or an area with a lot of boat traffic such as Cozumel. [/QUOTE]

What do you mean "float a surface marker"? Wouldn't you be towing a dive flag? You wouldn't have to "float" it. It would already be floating.

 

[MikeS]

ew,

Good questions.

I admit that a 7-foot octopus hose would make this easy.

Actually the primary second stage is on the long hose. In an OOA situation you donate the primary and go to the backup that is bungeed around your neck. I realize that this sounds complicated but in practice it works really well.

But if the other person really was out of air, would you really take the time to swim underwater to the anchor line? Why not just come up and swim to the boat on the surface

If there is current and you just come up, you will not come up at the boat and may not be able to get back to it. Additionally, it can be disorienting to make a ascent without a visual reference and hence more difficult to control your rate of ascent.

If you have not entered a decompression catagory, a safety stop is nice but not neccessary. Would you really be concerned about doing an un-neccessary safety stop while one person was out of air? Why not just come up?

Depending on your depth and pressure group, PADI tables may consider a safety stop “mandatory.” Additionally why not do a safety stop? IMO the risk of having to do a controlled swimming ascent from a safety stop at 15 feet is far outweighed by the reduced risk of DSC as a result of the safety stop. Making a safety stop at 15 feet also tends to slow down your ascent near the surface which is a good thing.

What do you mean "float a surface marker"? Wouldn't you be towing a dive flag? You wouldn't have to "float" it. It would already be floating.

There are several reasons that you might want to float a surface marker.
1. It provides a visual reference that helps to maintain a consistently slow ascent rate.
2. If you are diving off a boat in a current it allows the boat to see your marker drift off and know which direction to go looking for you when everyone else is back on the boat.
3. In places with a lot of boat traffic it lets boats know where you are so hopefully they don’t run you over.

Wouldn't you be towing a dive flag? You wouldn't have to "float" it. It would already be floating.

If there is much current towing a dive flag is impractical and dangerous. The current at the surface can be of different intensity and direction than at depth . Additionally the wind may push the marker in a direction other than the current. Hanging on to a dive flag would mean it would tow you. Although it may be done, I have never been boat diving where you use a dive flag. Typically you either ascend up the anchor/mooring line or float a surface marker either from depth or at the safety stop before surfacing.

Mike

 

[ew1usnr]

MikeS once bubbled...
If there is much current towing a dive flag is impractical and dangerous. Although it may be done, I have never been boat diving where you use a dive flag. Typically you either ascend up the anchor/mooring line or float a surface marker either from depth or at the safety stop before surfacing. Mike

Hello, Mike. I really am not trying to play devil's advocate. It's just that a lot of things you are saying here are completely out of my realm of experience. You are giving an example of how it is sometimes necessary to adapt equipment and procedures to local conditions. The conditions under which I dive are not at all like yours.

I haven't been out on a dive boat in at least 10-years. My diving has been either fresh water or beach dives, ... and I use a dive flag. The purpose of a dive flag is to try to keep a boat from running over you. A boater is supposed to know what a dive flag means and stay away from it (though that is not a guarantee). Some other sort of surface marker would not mean anything to a boater.

Where was your profile picture taken? I see a little fresh water bream in the foreground. The water looks clear.

 

[savagemyth]

I hear in this discussion alot of trying to justify clearly flawed thought processes:

Why, in an OOA situation would you do a 100' horizontal swim at depth and increased air consumption rate with 2 divers breathing off the same gas supply before finally heading to the surface?
When the gas runs out, who gets to choose who makes it to the surface, and who drowns? This clearly belongs in the beginning of a "lessons for life" story.


Several people have pointed out the obvious disadvantage of using an air supply connected to your inflator. Why do people need to argue with this irrefutable wisdom?? DIR concepts have evolved due to deaths caused by similar flawed thinking . This problem is exacerbated by the need of the dive industry to come out with more flawed crap for dive boat cattle to take with them on their next vacation. Task loading is an obvious problem with divers, and skills are only learned with practice. In open water, cave diving, boat diving or whatever we need to have good equipment, know that our buddy has good equipment and be able to have predictable responses in an emergency. I don't need my buddy to be fumbling around with different unnamable buttons that he hasn't practised with on his inflator hose regulator when I need gas. If I need gas, I need it now!

Breathe the long hose, wear the backup on your neck.

BTW the inflator on your BC also can function as an "emergency" third reg, esp. if you are using doubles, with the inflator hose connected to the right post aka DIR.

An AIR 2 is merely an attempt to have the cake after it's been eaten, just as the "pony" bottle is.