Is the air 2 a good octo?

[redacted]

Boogie711 once bubbled...


Don't dive with a pony. Either you manage your gas supply properly or you don't. If you're truly worried about redundancy, get an "H-valve."

And that H-valve will pack a lot easier for those trips to Cozumel. Well, I guess if you want to do 2 tank dives you better pack 2 of them. Then you just have to find a dive op that will makr sure they get filled & back to you. Oh, did you also want to do a shore or night dive also? OK, maybe 3 or 4 h-valves.

Yep, I think I'll stay with my pony. Thanks.

 

[detroit diver]

You guys solo diving?

 

[redacted]

DA Aquamaster once bubbled...

4) On the average dive, the Air 2 is my first choice for shooting a lift bag as I do not have to be concerned about the potential to freeze up a second stage.

Shooting a bag is something you need to practice. Using your Air2 has it advantages - and its disadvantages.

One advantage is when you "prime that bag" with air from your BC (Gets the bag straightened out and clears the duck bill valve without changing bouyancy) you don't have to then fumble around and switch to a std octo for the main shot. But a disadvangage is that if you get too distracted by this process of "priming" the bag, you do have an opportunity to get really stupid by hitting the wrong button on the Air2. Since this is not time for "half-stepping", you want to get as much air as possible in that bag as quickly as possible so it doesn't have too much opportunity to drag you up. I can tell you from experience, the trip from 17 ft to the surface when you hit the inflate button in stead of the purge does exceed any recommended ascent rates. In fact, you and the bag are up on the surface and the bubbles are almost subsided before you realize exactly what you did. Thankfully, N2 loading was low & airway open so the greatest damage done was to my buddy/wife's confidence in her buddy. It does make for a pretty good lesson though.

And yes, I frequently dive solo so an Air2 and a slung pony work well then as well as when I buddy up.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Ditto on the solo diving. About half my dives are solo athough on some of those I am solo diving with other divers.

Some of the divers I dive with accept that getting separated in the local conditions is a likely possibility and the plan is then not to try to surface, reestablish contact, etc if separated.

Great point on hitting the inflate button by mistake. You want to look at it, feel it, and confirm it's the button you want before you hit the purge and inflate the bag. Fortunately the buttons are not close and are distinctly different.

 

[ew1usnr]

detroit diver once bubbled...
If your inflator decides to stick open, and you're got to disconnect the hose to it to stop a runaway ascent- you've disconnected YOUR backup air supply.

That would only be a problem if your primary were to fail at the same time as your auto-inflator. That seems a bit hypothetical. I could just as easily ask "What if your conventional octopus failed at the same time as your primary?"

1. *BUT* if a conventional octopus starts an uncontroliable free flow or air leak, you can't stop it. That could be a big problem. If an Air2 octopus suffers a similar failure, you CAN disconnect it. That is a big advantage.
2. Also, the inflator valve on an Air2 is easier to reach and service than on many conventional auto-inflators, so it is less likely to stick to begin with. Since the Air2 is also a regulator, it is more likey to receive annual service than would a conventional auto-inflator.
3. You can bungee a conventional octopus around your neck, but you don't have to bungee an Air2. That's the point.
4. An Air2 eliminates a hose. What's wrong with that?
5. A properly tuned Air2 breathes great.
6. It is not difficult to dump or add air to a BC while breathing off an Air2.
7. The Air2 inflator can be used as a manual inflator if the air hose needs to be disconnected.

 

[detroit diver]

Wrong agrument. If my backup reg fails at the same time as my primary, I don't loose bouyancy and I can breathe off my inflator. You've lost both at the same time.

1. I am trained to breathe off of a freeflowing reg and I still maintain my inflator. You've just disconnected everything.

2. I don't know what you mean by "auto inflators".

3. What point? With my backup reg under my chin, I can reach down with my lips and grab it immediately and start breathing. Or at the least, just put it to my lips.

4. For streamlining it's good. For cutting off both your backup air source and bouyancy control at the same time, that's bad.

5. Many responses on this and other boards would disagree with you.
6. It would be in an emergency situation. Your panic'd buddy jammed up against you on a short hose breathing like a madman. Heavy breathing causes major bouyancy shift. You're trying to contol his bouyancy along with your own, and having to breath off your bouyancy control device. May the force be with you. The point is that you've introduced a complexity to a situation at the worst possible time. Unless someone practices this maneuver every time they go out and dive, this will turn into a total mess. With my backup reg, NOTHING changes.
7. The situation dealt with an OOA diver. You just diconnected YOUR air AND your bouyancy device. What are you using to manually inflate it (let alone breathe)?

One last thing. This is your tag line: Only dive with the newest and latest equipment.

Kind of says it all. HUB anyone??

ew1usnr once bubbled...


That would only be a problem if your primary were to fail at the same time as your auto-inflator. That seems a bit hypothetical. I could just as easily ask "What if your conventional octopus failed at the same time as your primary?"

1. *BUT* if a conventional octopus starts an uncontroliable free flow or air leak, you can't stop it. That could be a big problem. If an Air2 octopus suffers a similar failure, you CAN disconnect it. That is a big advantage.
2. Also, the inflator valve on an Air2 is easier to reach and service than on many conventional auto-inflators, so it is less likely to stick to begin with. Since the Air2 is also a regulator, it is more likey to receive annual service than would a conventional auto-inflator.
3. You can bungee a conventional octopus around your neck, but you don't have to bungee an Air2. That's the point.
4. An Air2 eliminates a hose. What's wrong with that?
5. A properly tuned Air2 breathes great.
6. It is not difficult to dump or add air to a BC while breathing off an Air2.
7. The Air2 inflator can be used as a manual inflator if the air hose needs to be disconnected.

 

[ew1usnr]

"If my backup reg fails at the same time as my primary, I don't loose bouyancy and I can breathe off my inflator. You've lost both at the same time."

You don't "lose" your buoyancy. Where would it go? You have the same bouyancy as what you had before you disconnect the LP hose. You would have to dump air to lose buoyancy.

"1. I am trained to breathe off of a freeflowing reg and I still maintain my inflator. You've just disconnected everything."

Sure. You can breathe off a free flowing regulator. For maybe a couple of minutes until you run out of air. It would seem preferable to be able to do something to stop the free flow. The bouyancy control loss not nearly as important an issue (see above).

"2. I don't know what you mean by "auto inflators". "

Auto-inflator, power-inflator. The thing you connect an inflator hose to. You push a button and it puts air onto your BC. Auto-inflator as opposed to manual inflator where you blow air into your BC with your mouth.

"3. What point? With my backup reg under my chin, I can reach down with my lips and grab it immediately and start breathing. Or at the least, just put it to my lips."

I think that most people would still use a hand to put the octo into their mouth rather than try to try to fish for it with their lips.

"4. For streamlining it's good. For cutting off both your backup air source and bouyancy control at the same time, that's bad."

Being able to cut off air to the octopus is an advantage. Cutting off air to the auto-inflator is not a big deal. Your buoyancy will remain as what it was before the LP hose was disconnected. Air can always be added manually. Use of the dump valve is unaffected.

"5. Many responses on this and other boards would disagree with you."

Their Air2's are not correctly tuned if they breathe poorly.

"6. It would be in an emergency situation. Your panic'd buddy jammed up against you on a short hose breathing like a madman. Heavy breathing causes major bouyancy shift. You're trying to contol his bouyancy along with your own, and having to breath off your bouyancy control device. May the force be with you. The point is that you've introduced a complexity to a situation at the worst possible time. Unless someone practices this maneuver every time they go out and dive, this will turn into a total mess. With my backup reg, NOTHING changes."

While breathing off an Air2 I can push the inflate button and I can pull my dump valve.

"7. The situation dealt with an OOA diver. You just diconnected YOUR air AND your bouyancy device. What are you using to manually inflate it (let alone breathe)?"

If my autoinflator stuck at the same time my buddy ran out of air (seems hypothetical), I would disconnect the Air2 and we would share my primary on the way up. The old fashioned way.

"One last thing. This is your tag line: Only dive with the newest and latest equipment. Kind of says it all. HUB anyone??"

I can see more advantages to an an Air2 than I do a HUB.

 

[jplacson]

ew1usnr, I was gonna say the same thing... I'd rather lose my buoyancy control, rather than all my air!!!

A free flowing reg is a bigger problem than a busted inflator since I can disconnect my BC and inflate it manually.

And why would anyone hand their Air2 off to an OOA diver??? I'd hand off my primary to my buddy.

 

[ew1usnr]

"I was gonna say the same thing... I'd rather lose my buoyancy control, rather than all my air!!!"

Exactly. What good is the auto-inflator going to do anyway if you are out of air? Being able to disconnect the air supply to a free-flowing octopus is a huge advantage that very much outweighs my concerns about not being able to use an auto-inflator.

"A free flowing reg is a bigger problem than a busted inflator since I can disconnect my BC and inflate it manually."

I agree. People seem to forget that they can always inflate their BC's manually.

"And why would anyone hand their Air2 off to an OOA diver??? I'd hand off my primary to my buddy."

Like everyone says, the out of air guy will most likely snatch the regulator out of your mouth. Then you grab your Air2. Just like you would a bungeed octopus.

 

[detroit diver]

ew1usnr once bubbled...
"If my backup reg fails at the same time as my primary, I don't loose bouyancy and I can breathe off my inflator. You've lost both at the same time."

You don't "lose" your buoyancy. Where would it go? You have the same bouyancy as what you had before you disconnect the LP hose. You would have to dump air to lose buoyancy.



"1. I am trained to breathe off of a freeflowing reg and I still maintain my inflator. You've just disconnected everything."

Sure. You can breathe off a free flowing regulator. For maybe a couple of minutes until you run out of air. It would seem preferable to be able to do something to stop the free flow. The bouyancy control loss not nearly as important an issue (see above).

Insert bouyancy control. And yes, you lose it if you disconnect your hose from the inflator. Now your OOA buddy has your reg, and you've got nothing.

"2. I don't know what you mean by "auto inflators". "

Auto-inflator, power-inflator. The thing you connect an inflator hose to. You push a button and it puts air onto your BC. Auto-inflator as opposed to manual inflator where you blow air into your BC with your mouth.

Okay. I call that an inflator.

"3. What point? With my backup reg under my chin, I can reach down with my lips and grab it immediately and start breathing. Or at the least, just put it to my lips."

I think that most people would still use a hand to put the octo into their mouth rather than try to try to fish for it with their lips.

The point being that once my reg is in my mouth (a matter of a split second) I have COMPLETE control of my bouyancy even if my inflator sticks and I have to pull the hose. More importantly, I'm breathing.

"4. For streamlining it's good. For cutting off both your backup air source and bouyancy control at the same time, that's bad."

Being able to cut off air to the octopus is an advantage. Cutting off air to the auto-inflator is not a big deal. Your buoyancy will remain as what it was before the LP hose was disconnected. Air can always be added manually. Use of the dump valve is unaffected.

You've lost your reasoning here. You've cut off BOTH your inflator AND your air supply.

"5. Many responses on this and other boards would disagree with you."

Their Air2's are not correctly tuned if they breathe poorly.

Must be a whole lot of untuned air sources out there.

"6. It would be in an emergency situation. Your panic'd buddy jammed up against you on a short hose breathing like a madman. Heavy breathing causes major bouyancy shift. You're trying to contol his bouyancy along with your own, and having to breath off your bouyancy control device. May the force be with you. The point is that you've introduced a complexity to a situation at the worst possible time. Unless someone practices this maneuver every time they go out and dive, this will turn into a total mess. With my backup reg, NOTHING changes."

While breathing off an Air2 I can push the inflate button and I can pull my dump valve.

Too much work. Your trying to do too much at the same time, and you've got a panic'd diver to contend with also. As I said before, unless you practice it all the time, it can turn into a potential disaster very quickly. It's the beginning of the chain of events that gets ugly quickly.

"7. The situation dealt with an OOA diver. You just diconnected YOUR air AND your bouyancy device. What are you using to manually inflate it (let alone breathe)?"

If my autoinflator stuck at the same time my buddy ran out of air (seems hypothetical), I would disconnect the Air2 and we would share my primary on the way up. The old fashioned way.

I guess that's where we differ. Given the option (which you have) I'd rather be breathing my own air supply. In fact, buddy breathing is not even taught (to my knowledge) anymore. You want to learn this at 90 feet?

"One last thing. This is your tag line: Only dive with the newest and latest equipment. Kind of says it all. HUB anyone??"

I can see more advantages to an an Air2 than I do a HUB.

We finally agree!