Is Suunto really that bad

[applecorps]

Consider the following and then click on the link to read the entire article:

"As manufacturers re-program their algorithms, many computers are becoming more conservative, with settings or adjustments that actually make multilevel, repetitive diving impractical. Of course, the more conservative the dive computer, the lower the risk of decompression sickness (DCS).

However, there is only one way to avoid all risk of DCS: don't dive. So where do you draw the line between safety and impracticality? It is our contention that divers should be answering that question for themselves and, most of all, that they should be provided the knowledge and tools to do so.

The trend toward ever-increasing conservatism in dive computers is also a product of the American legal system, in which liability suits against manufacturers of everything from hot coffee to baby food have been forced to pay ruinous settlements. Not only have computer algorithms become more restrictive in response to this litigiousness, but the warnings in the dive computer instruction booklets have become excessive and, often, actually contrary to common and reasonable diving practices and the very functions built into the computer."

Click on Dive Computer Secrets Revealed | Scuba Diving Magazine

to read this very informative and unbiased on the trend in dive computer algorithms.

 

[scubadada]

I dive 4-5 dives per day on vacation. I like the Pealgic Pressure Systems DSAT algorithm and have used a Pro Plus, Pro Plus 2 and now a VT3. To each their own. I'm very happy with my bottom time on every trip.

Good diving, Craig

 

[Downing]

I've used my Suunto Cobra2 for a couple of years now with no complaints.

However, Atomic appears to be on the verge of releasing its first computer, the the Cobalt. Scuba Lab just gave it a stellar review. Given that I'm an admitted Atomic fanboy, I'm probably going to hand off the Cobra2 to my wife and pick up the Cobalt once it hits the market.

 

[John_B]

I don't generally think of Scuba Mag and "unbiased" in the same thought, but you go guys go right ahead.

Personally I would let someone else vet a new brand of dive computer (i.e. one that wasn't a clone or relabeling of an existing brand). Either Atomic is moving into a new field they have very little experience in, or they are farming it out to someone else. It may be the best PDC ever, but I'll let someone else work that out vs. assuming that making a better Scubapro reg is equivalent to building a brand-new-from-scratch PDC.

 

[theduckguru]

I've used the Sunnto Gekko this season as my first computer. It has been a very dependable device. I believe it is conservative and I believe if I follow its directions it will keep me out of a deco chamber - which is really what I want it to do.

What good is more liberal computer that says your fine during the deco chamber visit?

 

[Downing]

I don't generally think of Scuba Mag and "unbiased" in the same thought, but you go guys go right ahead.

Personally I would let someone else vet a new brand of dive computer (i.e. one that wasn't a clone or relabeling of an existing brand). Either Atomic is moving into a new field they have very little experience in, or they are farming it out to someone else. It may be the best PDC ever, but I'll let someone else work that out vs. assuming that making a better Scubapro reg is equivalent to building a brand-new-from-scratch PDC.

Really good points, and I don't necessarily disagree with your thinking but I do think you should give a little more credit to the difference between Scuba Lab and Scuba Diving Magazine. In any case, if it were a "follow the money trail," there are a lot more monthly ads from the likes of AquaLung, Scuba Pro, Suunto, Oceanic etc in the magazine than there ever are from Atomic.

I'm thinking Atomic farms this one out but obviously could be wrong. Maybe they've created a whole new computer design division down there in Atomica Land. Either way, they have an excellent track record when it comes to quality gear, and I'm a bit of a gadget hound so I'm willing to be one of the vetters.

And in the unlikely event that the Cobalt doesn't work out, I can always take back the Cobra2 from my wife's gear bag. She couldn't care less as long as she has a computer she can read.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Consider the following and then click on the link to read the entire article:

"As manufacturers re-program their algorithms, many computers are becoming more conservative, with settings or adjustments that actually make multilevel, repetitive diving impractical. Of course, the more conservative the dive computer, the lower the risk of decompression sickness (DCS).

However, there is only one way to avoid all risk of DCS: don't dive. So where do you draw the line between safety and impracticality? It is our contention that divers should be answering that question for themselves and, most of all, that they should be provided the knowledge and tools to do so.

The trend toward ever-increasing conservatism in dive computers is also a product of the American legal system, in which liability suits against manufacturers of everything from hot coffee to baby food have been forced to pay ruinous settlements. Not only have computer algorithms become more restrictive in response to this litigiousness, but the warnings in the dive computer instruction booklets have become excessive and, often, actually contrary to common and reasonable diving practices and the very functions built into the computer."

Click on Dive Computer Secrets Revealed | Scuba Diving Magazine

to read this very informative and unbiased on the trend in dive computer algorithms.

That's fascinating. I would have guessed the exact opposite: that dive computers are becoming more LIBERAL due to the pressures of consumer demand. Just look at the bias against supposedly "conservative" computers here on SB, as evidenced by this thread. And check out those SB threads in which an increasingly vocal group of so-called "tech divers" seem to take the position that us ordinary "rec divers" are a conservative bunch (not in a disparaging way, but rather just pointing out the fact that we don't push the envelope) while the rec divers who join those threads often wonder whether tec divers are taking excessive risks. With the increasing interest in tech diving, I would have guessed that computer manufacturers would be bowing to consumer pressure to make computers more liberal.

By the way, maybe "risk" is a more accurate word than "liberal" or "conservative." Unfortunately, it's not going to be possible to refer to a computer as having a "higher," "lower" or "medium risk level" because those terms have certain connotations and imply a relative scale--a scale that can only be vaguely guesstimated. Who can say what is a "higher risk level"? But that's really what it is--a relative risk level compared with other computers. If new divers heard the word "risk level" more often, then maybe they would be less inclined to clamor for more liberal computers or query "Is Suunto really that bad?"

 

[applecorps]

the more conservative the dive computer, the lower the risk of decompression sickness (DCS).
____________________________________________________________________________________

I think that the constantly growing knowledge base with regard to the number of cases of DCS and the probability that companies like Suunto, Oceanic, etc. have the ability to factor in the increased risks of DCS resulting from the algorithms used, have a lot to do with their inclination to add additional factors which cause their products to become more conservative and not more liberal. Sadly, it is not pleasing their customer base with more bottom time which provides the motivation but, rather, their own risks of being sued by divers falling victim to DCS while using their products.

 

[donhealy]

This thread continues to be an interesting discussion.

I just got back from my latest dive vacation. four days of diving with 2 dives a day. I was diving with my Cobra 3 as my primary and my Sherwood Insight as my backup. For the first time in 18 years of diving (1000+ dives) I went into a deco mode. This was my 45th dive with the Cobra 3.

On the last dive of the week (Palancar Gardens) my Cobra went into deco mode. interestingly, my Insight did not. The Insight displayed 2 dots below the deco red zone with 5 minutes of NDT left. I was running low on air and had to violate my Cobra deco stop by 1 minute which resulted in the Cobra locking me up for 48 hrs. All my bad and no excuses; I'm just glad I had a back up computer as my security blanket. (I was also wishing that I had opted for Nitrox instead of air).

This experience prompted me to review my instruction manual. I had never seen the symbols come up on the Cobra and couldn't remember what they meant but the computer left no doubt that I had to make a stop at 10 feet for 10 minutes.

After consulting the manual again (for about the 10th time),it was clear that there were differences in how the computers calculate bottom times. But it was also clear that Suunto understands allowable risk by experienced divers and allows some modifications by the user. In this case the percent RGBM. The Cobra also would have allowed me to return to proper depth within 3 minutes of the violation and continued the off-gas without a lockout.

I was able to find one paragraph in the manual that explained why I probably went into deco in the first place. It had to do with the first dive of the day and ascent time. It seems that RGBM calcs for any rapid ascent significantly alters the next dive's bottom time. It also sends a signal that a long surface interval is required between dives.

The moral of the story is that computers are different and it is the responsibility of each diver to understand the differences and then dive responsibly. Unless there is an emergency, there is no excuse for going into unplanned deco.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Sadly, it is not pleasing their customer base with more bottom time which provides the motivation but, rather, their own risks of being sued by divers falling victim to DCS while using their products.

"Sadly"? If it's true that manufacturers are making their computers more conservative, then that's GREAT. I view that as the legal system actually working (for a change) by causing products to become safer. In theory, from a societal perspective, that's the point of products liability law--to get manufacturers to make their products safer so they can avoid being sued. Yes, safer products may often yield less fun for the user, but that's not unique to diving gear. So buck up and enjoy the increased safety of your new dive computer.