Is Suunto really that bad

[donhealy]

applecorp,
Interesting white paper by Suunto. I had not seen it. It answers many questions and provides good scientific explanations. It really helps to understand why the computer put me into a deco mode.

Don

 

[applecorps]

In the interest of further discussion and consideration, I found this previous thread which gives a good explanation of how some (I don't think my Mosquito has this option - maybe only the D9) Suunto computers can be changed to only 50% of RGBM meaning that the penalty in the form of reduced future dive(s) bottom time which results from minor violations to Suunto's algorithm is only half of the normal penalty . . and which it allegedly states that the diver, by selecting this option, willingly accepts the increased risks of doing so. Seems like a clever way of giving the so-called experienced divers a less conservative algorithm (to keep them diving Suunto) while making it clear that the consumer willingly accepts the increased risk to DCI:

Attenuated (50%) RGBM [Archive] - ScubaBoard

 

[DeprecatedMustang]

May have already been stated, but it's worth pointing out that if you compare to the broader spectrum of computers out there - Suunto is not necessarily the most conservative; it's often somewhere in the middle.

That said, Oceanic (and friends e.g. Aeris) are the most popular followed by Suunto and in warmwater diving DSAT will generally give you more NDL time. However if your profiles are deep bounce dives >120 ft then DSAT will often freak out and give nonsensically long stops.. especially on repetitive dives.

My point isn't to defend Suunto (or criticize Oceanic) so much as to point out that coarsely categorising manufacturers/algorithms (which often have slight changes depending on who implements it) as "liberal" or "conservative" really misses the point. You need to identify what type of dive profiles you will be doing, whom you will be diving with.... etc.. in order to make a good decision.

After doing my own research, I am convinced that there is merit to the idea of microbubbles even if it is not completely understood and prefer to dive that way even if it means I will occasionally have slightly less time, etc.

I think too many people are willing to just buy a computer based on features like backlights, air integration, compasses, etc.. rather than remembering what its PRIMARY purpose is - to reduce the chance of getting bent. I think someone that goes out and buys a computer and is trusting their life to it without having even some idea of what it is doing is very very foolish. Only when you understand your equipment are you capable of making intelligent judgments with concern to how much risk you are adopting. Otherwise you're just blindly following directions and pushing buttons.

 

[applecorps]

donhealy:
I think it's difficult to argue with the science outlined by Suunto in that article on RGBM and I do get a bit frustrated with other experienced divers pooh-poohing Suunto or other more conservative dive computers. I think we all have heard of experienced divers getting bent or worse without violating their dive profiles. If Oceanic or other manufacturers choose to ignore micro bubble research or even underestimate the need to deal with it, they do so at their own peril - I predict that some day they will likely be forced to move towards the RGBM model by their own product liability insurance carriers.

 

[pvcole]

My Wife, Daughter and I all dive Cobras and love them. We had a couple batches of Oceanic Pro Plus 2s and a Mares Nemo Air and liked them but did not have good luck with them. Our dive buddies are mostly Instructors, AIs, and DMs and they dive Suunto and Oceanic. I would need a VERY SPECIAL reason not to have my next computer be something other than a Suunto. Perry (PADI AI)

 

[applecorps]

I went looking for some feedback on Oceanic dive computers and found this page which is supposed to present both a "pro" and "con" feedback on the Oceanic Veo . . but they both sound like "con" to me:

Oceanic "Veo 180" Air/Nitrox Wrist Dive Computer Reviews | 24 reviews | Buzzillions.com

 

[Bubbletrubble]

My Wife, Daughter and I all dive Cobras and love them. We had a couple batches of Oceanic Pro Plus 2s and a Mares Nemo Air and liked them but did not have good luck with them. Our dive buddies are mostly Instructors, AIs, and DMs and they dive Suunto and Oceanic. I would need a VERY SPECIAL reason not to have my next computer be something other than a Suunto. Perry (PADI AI)

I'd be willing to bet that your dive buddies use Suuntos and Oceanics because their affiliated dive shops sell those brands of computers...and that the manufacturers give good customer service to them.

What would happen if the dive shop with which you are affiliated stopped selling Aqualung/Suunto products? Most shops in our area want instructors and DMs to be wearing stuff the LDS sells, as a form of advertisement to impressionable students.

I'm a bit leery of basing my gear choices on what a dive pro uses. It's rarely going to be stuff that's a good value for someone without access to "insider" discounts. At least that's been my experience.

 

[mitsuguy]

I don't generally think of Scuba Mag and "unbiased" in the same thought, but you go guys go right ahead.

Personally I would let someone else vet a new brand of dive computer (i.e. one that wasn't a clone or relabeling of an existing brand). Either Atomic is moving into a new field they have very little experience in, or they are farming it out to someone else. It may be the best PDC ever, but I'll let someone else work that out vs. assuming that making a better Scubapro reg is equivalent to building a brand-new-from-scratch PDC.

I have dived the Atomic Cobalt computer, its a great little PDC... I'm not big into hosed computers (I prefer the wrist), but its got a beautiful screen and a ton of nice features... The algorithm, when set on the most liberal, is just a hair more conservative than the Oceanics algorithm used in my Geo (1)... 1st dive was pretty much the same, but the consecutive dives got just a little less time... I did 4 dives in a day on it, and it worked beautifully... Atomic is not a company to risk their reputation without a fully tested, fully functional computer, IMO, at least...

here are a couple pics of it - it is of their own creation, and not farmed out, at all... (they have a rep for making most, if not all of their own parts, even down to the titanium pieces on their regs)

 

[donhealy]

I like the information and layout. Too bad I already bought the Cobra 3. My wife would kill me if I bought another one so quickly.

Don

 

[Hatul]

I have dived the Atomic Cobalt computer, its a great little PDC... I'm not big into hosed computers (I prefer the wrist), but its got a beautiful screen and a ton of nice features... The algorithm, when set on the most liberal, is just a hair more conservative than the Oceanics algorithm used in my Geo (1)... 1st dive was pretty much the same, but the consecutive dives got just a little less time... I did 4 dives in a day on it, and it worked beautifully... Atomic is not a company to risk their reputation without a fully tested, fully functional computer, IMO, at least...

here are a couple pics of it - it is of their own creation, and not farmed out, at all... (they have a rep for making most, if not all of their own parts, even down to the titanium pieces on their regs)

Can I ask you who sells the Cobalt?

Adam