Is safe second really needed?

[Teamcasa]

I'm quite sure valid cases can be made in hindsight, for situations where buddy breathing is preferred and just as many cases can be made for using a conventional octo. Going over those will always elicit other scenarios where the writer supports their own point of view. But, that's the best thing about discussing them, we all learn something and further shape our own diving paradigm.

I like using an octo, but then again, my wife is my primary diving buddy and it reassures me she has an octo as well.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I just don't get where all this "an octopus creates extra drag" argument comes from. Doubles create extra drag. Deco bottles create extra drag. Heck, a drysuit creates extra drag. But I just can't see a half-inch diameter hose with a four-inch plastic disk attached to the end of it creating enough drag to notice ... not unless you've unstowed the thing and it's managed to snag a few stems of bull kelp or something.

I just don't get it ... especially not from all these manly-men doing 200-foot dives with nothing but fins, mask, and a steel 72 tucked under their arm ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Teamcasa]

I just don't get where all this "an octopus creates extra drag" argument comes from.

Me neither. Scuba divers are about as streamlined as a cement truck anyway, I doubt the octo adds much more.

 

[Nemrod]

I'm not offended either - I enjoy the stories and the views of other divers. We're not in elementary school though I were to go through the time and effort to do it "your" way ;-)

Or "your" way, .

This does not have a second stage to fail, only one O-ring and that is not critical to function.

Yes, it is true, diving sans BC, octos and all the extras is more streamlined and more 3D.

Like he said, we equip for the circumstances, don't need it then we don't take it. Well, gotta get back to the shop, trying to repair/troubleshoot a trim tab issue with the boat before the first outing. Adios, amigos.

N

 

[Dan Weidert]

<<snip>> To me it seems the only thing an "octo" is good for is beating reefs and a kelp anchor, because those "octo keepers" don't work worth a damn. <<snip>> To date no diver nor DM has been able to come up with a better answer than "It is easier', or because PADI said so bla bla bla. <<snip>>

So here is the true question can anyone give me a valid reason why I should carry a "octo" on open water dives? And further more a situation where buddy breathing would not work, but an "octo" would. Please justify your reasoning and back it up with a story if possible. Or if you agree, leave a "Hell Yeah".

PS: don't tell me to get a BC air source, they are annoying and hinder effective manual inflation of the air cell.

Pitty,
I don't know if you will consider this a "good" reason but here you go. When I first certified buddy breathing was what was taught. No octos, heck no BCD (unless you count the Mae West vest). But the industry changed standards.... why? I can think of three good reasons - margin of safety, task loading, and panic.

Yesterday three of us were diving in 15 ft vis. The buddy to my immediate left stopped and was interacting with the buddy to his left then signaled to me to start back to shore (this was at 89 ft and the plan was to go to 100). As we turned I noticed he had donated his long hose to the buddy to his left. We began a nice easy return to shore (in a slight current- a first for me in a lake) and even made a 3 min safety stop. We were all more alert but not overly stressed. Turns out the other diver experienced free flow. Because we had redundancy - we were able to stop, breathe, think, act in a calm manner.

Having to buddy breathe and ascend 89 feet is just begging someone to ascend too fast, not exhale properly, increase stress, and possibly increase the chance of panic. All of those risks are easy to manage (amazing what 15 inches of bungee cord will do). In diving, some risks are necessary. Taking ones that are not necessary is begging Neptune to teach us humility.

Dan

 

[Slonda828]

I just don't get where all this "an octopus creates extra drag" argument comes from. Doubles create extra drag. Deco bottles create extra drag. Heck, a drysuit creates extra drag. But I just can't see a half-inch diameter hose with a four-inch plastic disk attached to the end of it creating enough drag to notice ... not unless you've unstowed the thing and it's managed to snag a few stems of bull kelp or something.

I just don't get it ... especially not from all these manly-men doing 200-foot dives with nothing but fins, mask, and a steel 72 tucked under their arm ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

In all honesty, most of the reasons I choose to nix the octo are primarily due to:

-blackwater diving with a J valve and no SPG for light salvage.

-vintage diving with a reg that cannot physically support an octo.

My PADI police approved rig and my tech rig both have an octo. Heck, one of them is on a 22" hose with a gen-u-wine shock cord necklace just like them fancy tech divers. I believe they call that an alternate second stage though. Tee hee.

I think the point is mostly that you will not explode if you do not use one. I use one in most of my diving, just not all of my diving. It just makes me laugh when people on a dive boat freak out because I do not have one. I'm not a hary-chested diver, and I don't dive overheads or complex dive profiles without an alternate second stage. Like Nem said, I dive for the profile. I bring what I need for the dive. If I need a BC, an octo, or a computer, then I use one. If I do not need them, I do not use them.

 

[pittyyofool]

Just out of curiosity has the term "minimalist diving" been around for a while or did this thread create a name/label for this minimalist way of diving?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Just out of curiosity has the term "minimalist diving" been around for a while or did this thread create a name/label for this minimalist way of diving?

It's been around for longer than I've been diving.

In every recreational activity I've ever been involved in, there are those who adopt alternative styles of doing that activity. And there are always a certain percentage of them who rationalize their decision by trying to convince everyone else that the conventional way is somehow deficient.

Diving ... like every other recreational activity ... is all about having fun. If "your" way helps you have fun, more power to ya. But all this talk about how much better it is ... or how much more "skillful" you have to be ... or how deficient the conventional way is ... reminds me of my grandfather's stories about walking to school "back in the day" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Nemrod]

Just out of curiosity has the term "minimalist diving" been around for a while or did this thread create a name/label for this minimalist way of diving?

No, it did not comes from this thread, minimalism is a loosely defined, evolving concept practiced by individuals who mostly don't follow any doctrines and mostly don't even communicate with each other, imagine that. There have been threads here in the past and on other boards. On this board there are several minimalists but among us our definition varies as one might expect. Actually, minimalism goes back to the beginning and while vintage equipment diving is often very minimal in nature a minimalist diver may more likely use fully modern equipment. Rather than following a dogma that requires specific equipment, team concepts, equipment reliance, a minimalist diver will choose equipment and methods to conform to a minimal profile for that dive as required and as they choose.

The Back Pack divers of California are an example, vintage divers are generally an example, free divers who use scuba to augment, some spearfisherman who use basic rigs are examples, etc.

I am headed to south Flariduh in a few weeks. I will beach dive several reef lines, I will use nothing but tank and single stage single hose reg. Then I will head south to the Keys and dive perhaps the Spiegal Grove before it rolls over again, there I will include a wing, octo, other equipment as the mission becomes defined--but no more than I absolutely need.

A minimalist would not likely have a tank clacker, .

N

 

[Walter]

A minimalist would not likely have a tank clacker

I love it! I hate those things.