Is safe second really needed?

[pittyyofool]

My buddy Daniel doing a 262 FSW tech dive. No BC, No octos, No redundancy. Just 3 gas mixes , fins and his home made back plate. back plate: sheet of aluminum, 2 bent aluminum pipes- bent and welded on for shoulder hooks, and a 2 inch webbing waist strap/weight belt.

another pic, and yes the snorkel was needed that day.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

My buddy Daniel doing a 262 FSW tech dive. No BC, No octos, No redundancy. Just 3 gas mixes , fins and his home made back plate. back plate: sheet of aluminum, 2 bent aluminum pipes- bent and welded on for shoulder hooks, and a 2 inch webbing waist strap/weight belt.

You would have liked Wolfgang Güllich:

Say what you will about leopard print shorts, his taste for climbing without a harness or rope (or even a shirt!) seems to match your style. Not that it's especially relevant, but it's interesting that very, very few climbers have been killed while climbing without a rope. Of course, few climbers are so bold. And those that dare are often extraordinarily careful and focused. I wonder if the mindset of the free solo climber is similar to the mindset of the minimalist diver.

 

[pittyyofool]

You are right, I think I do like Wolfgang, and His shorts are radical. I think I might go get a pair for my next warm dive.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I love all these "balls of steel" stories ... very entertaining.

But I can't help notice all these pictures have something in common ... no hood, no gloves, skimpy little wetsuits, crystal blue water.

You guys call that diving?



... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[pittyyofool]

Yes i do, those photos were taken in Alaska during the dead of winter. "HOUAA, BALLS OF STEEL" no really they were shot in the cook islands. I have been to the PacNW and that is some cold rough stuff up there, different situation= different equipment.

 

[DaleC]

You guys are great and I like reading about your style of diving and N I don't feel offended. I just think the message would resonate better without the negative rhetoric about training wheels, poor standards etc... We all know that things were better in the good old days. One has to realize that not everyone who opts out of a minimalist rig is doing so because of poor skills/training etc... so when one equates the gear with poor skills/training you will get some push back. In fact, this is just the very topic we were discussing in the "what is DIR" thread.

What is the commonly held view of the worst thing to happen to DIR?
Georges attitude of belittling others to promote his own style. Something that was completely unnecessary and counter productive.
I just don't think you guys should go down the same route, that's all.

 

[Sas]

I love all these "balls of steel" stories ... very entertaining.

But I can't help notice all these pictures have something in common ... no hood, no gloves, skimpy little wetsuits, crystal blue water.

You guys call that diving?



... Bob (Grateful Diver)

That is what I was thinking!

I'd love to dive with no hood, no gloves and in a skimpy little wetsuit. I think most people could quite easily manage to dive without a BC in those conditions. I'll give it a go myself when I, one day, end up doing a warm water dive.

 

[scorpluvsdolphins]

I went on a dive with someone who didn't get his gear checked out and hadn't dove for awhile. We did a wreck 125' with a 2knot current. We had to pull ourselves down the anchor line. It felt like I was having a water face lift I couldn't turn my head to make sure he was behind me on the line without holding my mask and reg. The current wanted to rip my reg out. I had to bite it hard to keep it in my mouth. We go down to the wreck, no problem. I reached 1000 psi and I signaled to go up. His gauge said over 2000 psi. While swimming back to the line, I thought it was odd that he had more air than me as I usually have more air left than most men. We got to the line, went up a few feet and he signaled out of air. I immediately gave him my reg and used my integrated, praying it would work. It did. He tried to buddy breath with me and I signaled no, I had mine. We had to go back up the line. It wasn't fun. Within a few feet of the surface my integrated reg filled with water as I tried to breathe from it. I swallowed the sea water as I did get air first before it filled up and I didn't want to spit it out and have no air. I shot up the last few feet dragging him with me. Thank God he didn't let go of the line as the current was strong and he didn't have a safety sausage.
When I had my integrated checked out, (only 8 months old), it seems the water pressure flipped a valve.
It all turned out all right, but it would have been scary to try and buddy breathe, hold on to the line and get to the top from 90 plus feet down.

 

[captain]

I went on a dive with someone who didn't get his gear checked out and hadn't dove for awhile. We did a wreck 125' with a 2knot current. We had to pull ourselves down the anchor line. It felt like I was having a water face lift I couldn't turn my head to make sure he was behind me on the line without holding my mask and reg. The current wanted to rip my reg out. I had to bite it hard to keep it in my mouth. We go down to the wreck, no problem. I reached 1000 psi and I signaled to go up. His gauge said over 2000 psi. While swimming back to the line, I thought it was odd that he had more air than me as I usually have more air left than most men. We got to the line, went up a few feet and he signaled out of air. I immediately gave him my reg and used my integrated, praying it would work. It did. He tried to buddy breath with me and I signaled no, I had mine. We had to go back up the line. It wasn't fun. Within a few feet of the surface my integrated reg filled with water as I tried to breathe from it. I swallowed the sea water as I did get air first before it filled up and I didn't want to spit it out and have no air. I shot up the last few feet dragging him with me. Thank God he didn't let go of the line as the current was strong and he didn't have a safety sausage.
When I had my integrated checked out, (only 8 months old), it seems the water pressure flipped a valve.
It all turned out all right, but it would have been scary to try and buddy breathe, hold on to the line and get to the top from 90 plus feet down.

And what would you have done if your intergrated had failed at 90 feet instead of a few feet from the surface. I bet buddy breathing wouldn't have been such a bad idea then.

 

[sladerer]

I'm not offended either - I enjoy the stories and the views of other divers. We're not in elementary school though, so I'll leave off listing out the ways a primary second stage can fail...

As for the integrated safe second/inflator - use one or not, take an octo or not, none of my business - mine is long enough to breathe from but secured well enough that it doesn't drag yet easy to free if I need it (which I practice at least once on each dive trip). Higher risk of failure combining the two than a separate inflator and octo, sure, but I find this an amusing position when a lot of the "lose the octo" discussion revolves around streamlining :-D

Buddy breathing - we were taught buddy breathing by our SSI instructor - maybe he was old school, maybe he just liked f'ing with us, but there are people out there teaching it even if the agencies don't insist on it. I'm inclined to think they should go back to teaching more of it.

As for all the minimalist/DIR/etc rigs, glad you like them, very cool looking, just don't expect most of us will follow suit, nor assume it's because we're not able. I find my equipment very comfortable, very easy to use, very adaptable to different conditions, and frankly I'm not looking for ways to see how cool or retro or anything else I can be. I enjoy diving the way I currently do it and find it hard to believe my appreciation and enjoyment would increase significantly if I were to go through the time and effort to do it "your" way ;-)