Is quick release important?

[SkullDeformity]

If I were retrieving any diver from the bottom I would not look for a weight belt. They are not put in any standardized place, and variances in bizzare weight pocket configurations are not something I'm going to eff around with. I know where your power inflation is, it's at the same place on every diver.

And please people, don't cite BS statistics you just pull out of thin air unless you're going to back it up with a source. You can't blame diver deaths on weight belts, there are a thousand other reasons why, with weight belts being the least of my concerns. Do as you will, I'll stick to my education.

 

[halocline]

I'm just a noob, but the arguments against of ditchable weight sound like the arguments against wearing a seatbelt in a car. "What if the car bursts into flame and you are stuck in your belt?" "The belt interferes with my skills" etc.

Your analogy is actually backwards. The arguments against the necessity of ditchable weight are nothing like arguing against a seat belt. It would be more like the argument against ditchable weights is like the argument against having an ejector seat.

 

[halocline]

And please people, don't cite BS statistics you just pull out of thin air unless you're going to back it up with a source. You can't blame diver deaths on weight belts, there are a thousand other reasons why, with weight belts being the least of my concerns. Do as you will, I'll stick to my education.

What BS statistics are you referring to? Who's blaming diver deaths on weight belts?

 

[Thalassamania]

For me the issue is can you doff and don your tank if you need to? With all your balast concentrated with your tank(s) you are real trouble if you need to remover your tank(s).

 

[SkullDeformity]

Talking about BC's and Weight systems is a bit different than Technical Diving. Diving under a ceiling (hard or longer deco-oblication) makes the difference. A sudden ascend within NDL won't kill you. Drowning does. About 1/4 of drowned divers had air in their tank and weightbelt on.

This is the BS I'm talking about. That 1/4 divers statistic is bull, and a woman at cove 2 died because she shot up from 100ft in panic and she was within NDL. She died via an embolism in her heart. Care to spout any more misinformation?

 

[taliesin58]

For me the issue is can you doff and don your tank if you need to? With all your balast concentrated with your tank(s) you are real trouble if you need to remover your tank(s).

The weight is in pockets attached to my harness right up against my tank. Only a little is attached to the cam band. I am quite large (6'4", 185 lbs, and a little bit of pudge) so when I am covered head to toe in neoprene, I bob like a cork. About half of my weight is in the pockets, a little less than half is the backplate, and the rest is on my tank.


Everyone else, play nice. :hug:

 

[ZoCrowes255]

This is the BS I'm talking about. That 1/4 divers statistic is bull, and a woman at cove 2 died because she shot up from 100ft in panic and she was within NDL. She died via an embolism in her heart. Care to spout any more misinformation?

The 1/4 statistic is commonly cited by DAN. I am not at work so I don't have a lot of their literature in front of me to cite it though. According to the last set of Dive Rescue International materials I came across they had the statistic at over 60% when it comes to public safety divers and diving accidents at the surface.

A sudden ascent from 100ft is going to be dangerous no matter what. It won't always kill you though. Drowning because you failed to maintain positive buoyancy at the surface will.

The depth and NDLs do not matter at all when it comes to over expansion injuries. They can happen in as little as four feet of water. That's simply Boyle's Law in action.

In openwater diving you need to have some sort of ditchable weight. I teach for 3 different agencies. I'm a NAUI Instructor Trainer, SSI Dive Control Specialist Instructor and SDI Master Instructor and all three agencies call for ditchable weight to be worn while diving. They do not advocate ditching the weight belt underwater unless absolutely necessary. That is why I teach swimming ascents before buoyant ascents. A buoyant ascent is used to prevent drowning. That's it. It's better to get a DCS hit than it is to drown.

However, even if you swam to the surface, once you are at the surface you need to ditch your weights if you cannot maintain positive buoyancy, for whatever reason, with the BC alone. This is the very first question on the SSI Openwater Exam.

Your avatar makes it look like you are a cave diver or are at least heavily influenced by them. Not everything that works in a cave works 40 miles out at sea and not everything that works out at sea works in a cave. It's a lot different being at the surface on a calm spring than in salt water with six foot seas and a 1.5 knot current.

 

[SkullDeformity]

Give me one situation where I can't maintain postive buoyancy with just my BC. There is no difference between OW diving and more technical diving, except in mindset and attitude. What works 220 feet down in a wreck or thousand of feet back in a cave works in a less dangerous and complex situation. Saying openwater in bold is not a magic word.

 

[rockjock3]

A lot of people are telling you that you don't need to have ditchable weight on your rig for warmwater open ocean diving. This is complete and utter BS. The issue is not when you ditch your weight underwater. You should not be wearing so much weight that you can't safely swim yourself to the surface.

The issue comes into play at the surface. At the surface, if you have in an emergency, THE VERY FIRST thing that you should do is inflate your BC and ditch the weight. If you have a leak in your BC (and it does happen quite frequently) that six pounds of nonditchable weight your wearing is going to make your life a whole lot harder.

If you have a long swim ahead of you and a BC that does not hold air you better hope you can ditch whatever weight you are wearing.

In a perfect world if you are properly weighted the amount of weight you wear will make you neutral at 15 feet with no air in your BC. So at the surface it should not be enough weight to force you under. Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world. There is a reason that the very first question of the SSI Openwater exam asks what to do in an emergency at the surface. You inflate your BC and ditch your weight!

I very plainly said that, depending upon your type of diving and equipment, you will possibly have a need or not. My configuration doesn't require that. I am just tired of the people that state "you should have ditchable weight" or "you shouldn't have ditchable weight". There is no right answer for everybody.

Here is my proof to the negative of your black and white answer. I wear two pounds on my rig. So from your perspective, when I loose the 15-20 lbs of body weight that I want to (3-4 lbs bouyancy, not including any additional loss of buoyancy due to any incidental muscle gain) I should stop diving. I will not have a purpose for ditchable weight at that point, since I will be negative at the end of my dive with NO weights on.

But on another hand, FOR ME (see, not including everybody), if I am going to inflate my BC on the surface to swim and my 2 lbs that I wear was on a ditchable belt, I am not going to worry about dropping them. That serves absolutely no purpose. Let me do the math. At the beginning of my dive I am approximately (with my weights) 6lbs negative. My wing has 30lbs of lift, so what is the advantage of dropping a whole 2 lbs from that configuration. Do you really understand how light 2lbs are in the water?

Now, as to your reasoning that part of the reason ditchable weight is pressed so much I would agree. We don't live in a perfect world and many people are severely overweighted. If you had read my original post that is the same thing I said. I went on to say that if you are properly weighted, however and diving in a warmer client the need is much less or can even be non-existent. The agencies try to protect the masses.

 

[ZoCrowes255]

Give me one situation where I can't maintain postive buoyancy with just my BC. There is no difference between OW diving and more technical diving, except in mindset and attitude. What works 220 feet down in a wreck or thousand of feet back in a cave works in a less dangerous and complex situation. Saying openwater in bold is not a magic word.

You have not had a hole in the corrugated hose of your BC before have you? OPV's have gaskets in them that can leak if they become warped or get sand in them and leak. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you are a new(ish) diver. You probably have not seen a BC with over 1000 dives on it and has spent god knows how many hours in the pool. BCs are not some magical leak proof device. They won't always hold air. In that circumstance if you are not wearing ditchable weight you are going to have to ditch your BC to maintain positive buoyancy.

Spend some time around a gear repair room to see what can go wrong with your air. Even gear that is religiously maintained can have a small problem that can snowball into a large one.

A BC is not some kind of magical leak proof device. They won't always hold air. In that circumstance if you are not wearing some ditchable weight you are going to have to ditch your BC to maintain positive buoyancy.

I dove over 300 dives on a backplate (just sold it to a guy on this messageboard actually.) I have about half as many on a complete hogarthian setup so I know what you are trying to get at. Tech diving is not some be-all/end-all form of scuba diving. Despite what you want to believe not all the techniques work in every situation. I am working my way up as a public safety diver instructor. I would be a moron to think that every technique I use for my highly specialized form of diving will work in every diving situation.

Stuff

I was not really addressing you actually. I was addressing the topic in general. I am a skinny guy myself and in the pool with a shorty I do not require any weight to sink. I rarely have any weight on my belt in the pool. Back when I wore my plate I sank like a frickin' stone.

I am about neutral with an AL80 at 500psi and no air in my BC. Unfortunately in the diving world we are the exception. Most divers (like most Americans) are slightly overweight to obese. They don't sink. They need a weight belt. That is where the issue comes into play.