Is quick release important?

[Thalassamania]

I'm waiting for the torrent of situations in which I cannot maintain positive buoyancy at the surface. So far, there have been.....two.....rare circumstances. Since I'll be in a drysuit well before 1000 dives when my corregated hose will invariably rupture, causing me to die, I'm not too worried about that. Even diving wet, my rig is at worst 2lbs negative. I'll be able to kick at the surface that EASY. Debris in my power inflator? I don't set my junk down in sand.

Don't tell me I need ditchable weight on my drysuit configuration. That is ridiculous. How many failures are you going to plan for?

There is still that problem that if all your ballast is on your rig you can't reasonably remove and replace it except at the surface, thus serious entanglement becomes much more dangerous. I think that your rig should be as neutral as possible and you should also be neutral when your rig is off.

 

[String]

Ditchable weight can be dangerous in its own right. So far this season (about 3 weeks old) there've been at least 4 reports of divers ending up in a pot after their weights ditched unintentionally.

At shallow depths it may just be a chamber trip to ensure no damage. Deeper diving or deco diving it can be outright lethal if that happens. The more weight you need to carry the worse it is - lots of weight means the chance of a belt slipping is higher and when it does go youre VERY positive instantly with no hope of staying down.

Personally id rather not rocket even from 15m due to losing a belt.

I wear my belt under my crotch strap to provide that security. That way it cannot fall off underwater but can be easily jettisoned on the surface.

I cant see a single situation where ditchable weights would be useful underwater. You have your BCs buoyancy, drysuit buoyancy, SMB as emergency buoyancy and buddy has the same. Thats 6 things that have to fail together to cause a problem.

I do dislike integrated weights (be it pouches or just backplate etc) in case you need to dekit underwater. In theory you keep an arm through a loop. In reality with a thick exposure suit you'll be hanging on upside down for dear life and one slight mistake causes you to lose the grip you turn into a missile.

 

[Nudgeroni]

The more weight you need to carry the worse it is - lots of weight means the chance of a belt slipping is higher and when it does go youre VERY positive instantly with no hope of staying down.

I can see your point here, String. Could the risks be minimized by reducing the amount of ditchable weight (keeping it 10 lbs or less, for example)? Reduced ditchable weight might not result in positive buoyancy in one extreme, but it would reduce the 'rocket effect' and still make buoyancy more positive in an emergency situation.

 

[Thalassamania]

Ditchable weight can be dangerous in its own right. So far this season (about 3 weeks old) there've been at least 4 reports of divers ending up in a pot after their weights ditched unintentionally.

This is a very real problem. The solution is easy but seems to escape most divers: a positive closing and opening buckle rather than one of the cheapo conventional friction lever buckle most divers use. I’d recommend either a wire bail buckle on a rubber belt or the “SeaQuest” buckle.

At shallow depths it may just be a chamber trip to ensure no damage. Deeper diving or deco diving it can be outright lethal if that happens. The more weight you need to carry the worse it is - lots of weight means the chance of a belt slipping is higher and when it does go you’re VERY positive instantly with no hope of staying down. .

You do reach a point, somewhere in the 35 lb and above range when you need to move to a harness arrangement.

I wear my belt under my crotch strap to provide that security. That way it cannot fall off underwater but can be easily jettisoned on the surface.

As long as you’re ready to deal with the potential problems that strap engenders I have no heartburn with that approach.

I cant see a single situation where ditchable weights would be useful underwater. You have your BCs buoyancy, drysuit buoyancy, SMB as emergency buoyancy and buddy has the same. Thats 6 things that have to fail together to cause a problem.

Ditchable weights are primarily an aid at the surface. But having your rig close to neutral and yourself close to neural separate from your rig can be a matter of life and death.

 

[SmokinReefer]

Your analogy is actually backwards. The arguments against the necessity of ditchable weight are nothing like arguing against a seat belt. It would be more like the argument against ditchable weights is like the argument against having an ejector seat.

Anyone have plans for that ejector seat? I'm not sure if I would put it on my side or my wife's though.

That seat belt analogy is a whole different thing. Sure, sometimes a belt has helped kill a person, but most of the time it helps save people. My brother was in an auto accident where the steering column was push through the driver's seat. Fortunately he didn't have his seat belt on because he would have certainly been dead. And he always wears his seat belt, but not on that ride for some reason.

I think someone summed it best when they said there are two sides to the issue and both are unwilling to budge. Sure there are instances each side could pick to bolster their argument, but as someone else said, these instances are pretty darn rare.

So get in the pool and try out a few ideas presented here and let us know what you like best.

 

[String]

I can see your point here, String. Could the risks be minimized by reducing the amount of ditchable weight (keeping it 10 lbs or less, for example)? Reduced ditchable weight might not result in positive buoyancy in one extreme, but it would reduce the 'rocket effect' and still make buoyancy more positive in an emergency situation.

If you're positive and going up things will just get worse due to expansion and so on. A swing just to get you started on the way up eventually means youre ascent will be unstoppable.

 

[ZoCrowes255]

I'm waiting for the torrent of situations in which I cannot maintain positive buoyancy at the surface. So far, there have been.....two.....rare circumstances. Since I'll be in a drysuit well before 1000 dives when my corregated hose will invariably rupture, causing me to die, I'm not too worried about that. Even diving wet, my rig is at worst 2lbs negative. I'll be able to kick at the surface that EASY. Debris in my power inflator? I don't set my junk down in sand.

Don't tell me I need ditchable weight on my drysuit configuration. That is ridiculous. How many failures are you going to plan for?

Once again there is a reason in BASIC OPENWATER CLASSES we stress the importance of maintaining positive buoyancy at the surface. It's not a rare circumstance! In 4 years of professional diving most of the rescues I have had to perform have been at the surface. Almost all of them have been complete strangers who tried to use me as a life raft at the surface because they could not maintain positive buoyancy. Thankfully in four years working in the industry this has only happened a handful of times.

In your profile you claim to be DIR yet you are dismissing circumstances that can lead to the most common type of diving accident in openwater diving ; a panicked diver at the surface. I have a few buddies who are DIR (GUE trained) and they use common sense as well as what they learned in ALL their training. Those guys are great divers and I'll dive with them anytime.

There is nothing worse than an arrogant new diver. I hope I never have to dive with you or have you on one of my diveboats. You can play tech diver all you want it does not mean you know what you are doing.

 

[Nudgeroni]

If you're positive and going up things will just get worse due to expansion and so on. A swing just to get you started on the way up eventually means youre ascent will be unstoppable.

My point is that by reducing the ditchable weight, there won't be much of a problem if you lose it. I'm sure you could fight a positive change in buoyancy of 5-10lbs enough to control ascent. If there is no problem having the ditchable weight, than there is no reason to go against the traditional wisdom of carrying it.

 

[String]

OK a very small amount of ditchable would be controllable, the problem is start vs end of dive. At the beginning with lots of air in the tank ditching say 8lb you may still be negative. At the end with lighter tanks positive. Its a case of working out how much weight you need and so on and taking your pick really. There wont be a single one fits all answer there as it depends on kit and the divers requirements.

Personally i carry all 12kg (26lbs) on a weight belt but under my crotch strap so it cannot fall away. Other people do differently.

 

[halocline]

My point is that by reducing the ditchable weight, there won't be much of a problem if you lose it. I'm sure you could fight a positive change in buoyancy of 5-10lbs enough to control ascent.

You would be very wrong to assume you could control an ascent in this situation. 10lbs positive at depth very quickly becomes far more buoyant as you ascend. Even 5 lbs would be problematic for most divers.

Personally, I've never heard of or seen a weight belt coming off unexpectedly. (I'm sure it happens, but it's probably pretty rare) It's the accidental deployment of integrated weights that I would be concerned about. In particular, weights secured by velcro seem to be vulnerable to falling out; that one I've seen a few times.

IMO, there are other ways of ensuring safety at the surface; first among them is to never be overweighted in the first place. Sure, that's not the entire answer. (Okay flamers, have fun!) I'm sure there are lots of divers, especially new divers, really especially new divers with poor skills who need extra weight to initially get down, for whom being able to dump weight AT THE SURFACE is a useful emergency measure. But, it certainly does not describe every diver in OW, and it does present the problem of accidentally losing weights at depth. I would venture a guess, and I freely admit this is a guess, that most incidents of DCS in OW single tank diving are caused by rapid ascents and not excessive bottom time. I base this guess on the knowledge that most OW divers will usually blow through an AL80 before violating NDLs at rec depth, and on my observations of the poor buoyancy skills exhibited by so many new divers.

The issue of ditchable vs non ditchable weight is just not so cut and dry as to say "all OW divers must have ditchable weight".