Is lowering the age of Scouts for SCUBA Diving a good idea?

[KJackson60]

It has been reported on this web site that the BSA is going to lower the age that Boy Scouts can participate in SCUBA Diving as part of Troop programing. The current age is 14 and will be lowered to 12 or 11 depending on when a youth joins a Troop. The reason for this is to bring the age requirement for earning the new SCUBA Merit Badge in line with all of the other Merit Badges.

I am very happy that we have a SCUBA Merit Badge and I will be signing up as a counselor. My question is the advisability of opening up what has been up to now a "High Adventure" activity to anyone who thinks they want to try this. When it was classified as "High Adventure" there where limiting factors as to who could participate. A youth needed to be First Class, of the proper age, pass a Class 3 medical check and demonstrate an adequate level of physical and emotional development to be allowed to participate in this activity.

With the changes as I understand them they will no longer have to meet any of these requirements. This puts the adult leaders who are responsible for these youth on these outings in a difficult position. They could possibly have a group of 12-13 year old Tenderfoot scouts that they are trying to keep tabs on through out the entire dive process. So we will need more adult assistance on the surface with gearing up, additional adult divers to help keep track of these kids underwater, etc.

I am not saying that children of this age can not dive. There a certainly many out there that do, and do well, with mom or dad. My concern is the fact that up to now each youth was expected to have the ability to participate in a self contained manner eg. handle equipment, focus on briefings/instruction, and be a fully capable dive buddy, even in an emergency involving an adult. Not all 14 year olds can do this, how many 12 year olds can?

OK, I have rambled long enough. Please respond with your thoughts on this.

 

[T23]

Purportedly there are revisions to the GTSS coming in terms of the existing language as pertains to SCUBA. If those revisions have been published I haven't heard about them to date nor have I had an opportunity to read them. So to a certain extent the only thing we can focus on tangibly for discussion purposes at this point are the merit badge pamphle, what it states, and the scope of "C" card.

For purposes of BSA advancement policy ANY registered Boy Scout can work on ANY merit badge at any time. Boys can be a Boy Scout if they meet the other criteria as young as age 10, though I fully recognize most join at age 11. So we really do have to look at this issue within the context of 10-14 year olds in terms of any changes.

One of the requirements to earn the SCUBA merit badge is to also earn the Swimming merit badge. Not all 10 year old scouts can pass the Swimming merit badge and may not also be able to pass the swimming test given at the start of an open water course. If they do pass both then they have demonstrated surface swimming abilities that are acceptable to both BSA and the certifying agency.

SCUBA skill evaluations are left to the judgment of the certifying agency instructor. Neither the BSA nor the SCUBA Merit Badge counselor (assuming the counselor is not also the SCUBA instructor) have a direct role in certifying scouts as open water divers.

The buddy system used widely throughout scouting in many activities, including aquatics, extends into SCUBA diving. All SCUBA divers, regardless of age, when diving within the BSA program need to follow the buddy system. Certified SCUBA divers age 15 and older have full open water credentials and can be each others buddy. However Scouts 15 or older can not be a buddy to a Scout who is younger than 15. Certified SCUBA divers age 10-14, regardless of certification level, are certified as Junior divers and have restrictions in terms of depth and supervision. Each Junior diver is required to dive with either a certified parent or instructor. That means each buddy pair that involves a 10-14 year old must be matched up with either a certified parent or a certified instructor during regular, non-training dive activities.

At this point in time it appears from what I have seen reported that the vast majority of SCUBA diving within the BSA program takes place in Venturing units. It is hard to say at this point what kind of changes we will see in terms of interest with SCUBA in Boy Scout troops with these changes. In general, because of the cost, time, training, equipment, etc IMO there will probably be some pockets of dedicated scouts and scouters who band together around common interest and love for diving. In units where leaders are not divers themselves it might be somewhat of an uphill struggle for scouts to get something going and I don't think we are going to see someone suggesting SCUBA in the same manner as some other forms of new high adventure activities are suggested mostly because of the logistics involved.

 

[mmmeenehan]

Per the revised BSA scuba policy (see previous thread for the revised policy) all scout scuba activities must be still done under the direct supervision of a dive professional (Divemaster or higher). So the adult scout leaders are not the ones who must "keep tabs on [the scouts] through out the entire dive process". As T23 points out, the restrictions on junior divers also means that they must dive with an adult.

Just because the scouts are allowed to enroll in the (Junior) OW certification course doesn't mean that they have the skills (or maturity) to complete the course (a req of the MB).

 

[Diver Lori]

My dive buddy and co-instructor has been a high adventure advisor for a local BSA troop for a very long time......decades. He is a highly experienced outdoorsman and is the primary instructor for the boys with regards to outdoor skills at the high adventure age group level.

Due to his experience over the years with taking scouts into the wilderness, he has set a minimum age level for specific trips; along with a certain rank and badge requirement for those specific trips.

Based on all of his experience, his feeling is the underwater world is also wilderness and has set 15 as the minimum age limit for his acceptance of scuba students in the past. Now, we haven't had a change to discuss the new BSA merit badge for scuba, but my best guess that I would wager in Vegas is.....his criteria would not change.

If his troop actively pursues the BSA Scuba merit badge, they will most likely do so without his assistance or blessing.

 

[Chugwhump]

This is such an obvious answer in my very humble opinion.

I will use myself as an example.
I got my BASIC YMCA Certification when I was 12 (1977).
Back then you had to actually work equations with Boyle's law, Dalton's law, Martini's law...and other blah blah blah gas laws.
It was tough for a regular kid and some adults also.
I grew up in SE Florida, pretty close to the beach.
We snorkled like maniacs for years before we were allowed to do Scuba training.
I was then and am still now, an excellent swimmer.
All that being said, not every 10 year old is ready for the Scuba merit badge.
Not every 40 year old is either.
I am glad to see here that there are some preliminay quals before we let the kids into the pool, so to speak.
I like the whole mandatory DM/Pro supervision.
My son will be 10 this December.
As he grew up around divers, the ocean, boats, and is a fish, gets good grades, (but sucks at keeping his room clean) and is a good kid that listens to directions, and is level headed, I am going to let him take his dive lessons with a "Kid SCUBA Training Specialist".
I figure that diving next to me and my regular buddies on shorter duration "Baby Dives" meaning 30' or less....well after he figures out 6' in the pool, and 12' off of the beach on a calm day, he will be fine.
But he still needs to do the book work, dedicate himself, and try to keep his room clean.
I think it really depends on the kid, and I think just about everyone else does also.

Chug

 

[lowviz]

..........I think it really depends on the kid, and I think just about everyone else does also.

Chug

-don't remove the opportunity, make it strict, but don't remove it.

Stay safe.

 

[mmmeenehan]

Purportedly there are revisions to the GTSS coming in terms of the existing language as pertains to SCUBA. If those revisions have been published I haven't heard about them to date nor have I had an opportunity to read them.

The revised BSA Scuba has been incorporated into the online version of the GTSS (available at Guide to Safe Scouting) Who knows when it will make it into printed versions...

 

[TwoBitTxn]

You all keep talking about 10 y/o kids taking the class. In order to join you must be 10 1/2 AND through the fifth grade or 11 y/o. I don't see much difference between a 10 y/o and a 11 y/o but that's just me.

I also think the troop leaders need to exercise judgement. Maybe that's asking alot, but the younger kids need to be working on other stuff first. I would like to see a series of minimum requirements like swimming and possibly lifesaving merit badges before earning SCUBA.

 

[mmmeenehan]

I would like to see a series of minimum requirements like swimming

Having the swimming merit badge IS a requirement for new scuba merit badge. Not a prereq, but is required before working on scuba mb reqs 3-6 "Before completing requirements 3 through 6, earn the Swimming merit badge."

 

[TxIceDiver]

I am scuba instructor and now also a scuba MB counselor. I have been teaching kids and adults to dive for several years ago and here are some of my personal observations and opinions.

My certification agency allows me to certify kids as young as 10 to dive. Personally, I find it hit or miss if the 10-12 year old kids are actually mature enough and ready for dive classes, most 10-11 year old's aren't, though I have had a few do really well. Usually, between the swim test, the book work and the first pool session, I can tell pretty quickly who is ready and who isn't. I personally would have preferred that the minimum certification age would have been left at 12. I find that the 12-13+ kids rarely have problems that we can't overcome and many times perform better than the adults in the water. (mask clearing can be a challenge) I taught both of my kids to dive when they were 13 and both did very well. (my son could jump in the pool with just a mask, i.e. no scuba, only breath hold, and clear his mask and then surface on a single breath, and this was before I taught him to dive at 13)

The junior certifications (under 15) do have depth limitations and they must dive with an adult. Preferably their parent or a dive professional.

As far as the BSA goes, they have written the Scuba MB requirements well enough that I think that you will find in practice that most of the younger kids won't be able to meet the requirements easily, and those that can will actually be well behaved, up for the challenge and ready to dive. (I know if I am their instructor, they will be well prepared, cause I am cranky old hardtail). And the older boys will do really well.


If we are planning a dive/camping outing. I would be very careful on picking the location and activities to make sure that they were age and skill level appropriate. I would also very keenly evaluate the dive conditions and know the diving abilities of each scout before deciding what the ratios of kids to adults would be (I would prefer to have DM's, though an experienced adult will work, I have non-professional dive buddies that have 500+ dives) In TX we have a lot of mud hole diving, so conditions and visibility can really vary. Ideally, there would be 1 adult per scout buddy team. Especially if the group is younger. As the boy get older (14+) or have more experience, the ratio can go up. (say 4-6 per DM depending upon conditions).

One other thing to consider in the whole scheme of things is the cost and the logistics of diving. The amount of gear that is required is outstanding. I think that a lot of troops probably won't be able afford to go. When I teach a class of six, i generally haul most of the gear for the class to the pool and the lake, it takes up most of the room in my trailer, and if we camp, then my SUV is full too. I have bent several trailer axles by hauling to much dive gear.

Well, I could ramble on for hours about this, but i would probably bore everyone. So thank you for your time.