Is lowering the age of Scouts for SCUBA Diving a good idea?

[KJackson60]

There have been some great responses to this question and I would like to thank everyone for their input.

It seems the only changes made to the guide lines for participation in a SCUBA program as outlined in the Guide To Safe Scouting (revised) is the dropping of the age and rank requirements needed for a youth to participate in a troop conducted scuba outing. They no longer need to be 14 and First Class. Other than some amplification of the old guide lines I don't see much different. The dropping of these two qualifications IMO has made it more difficult to determine the suitability of a youth to successfully participate in this program. As an adult leader you have fewer opportunities to observe the youth in group situations and observe them as they "problem solve" if they are allowed to do SCUBA at a younger age.

I agree that the instructors will probably help weed out the scouts incapable of safely participating in this sport. However, just because a youth can pass the tests and do the skills to the instructors satisfaction does not mean the youth is mature enough to follow through with those skills on actual dives. A case in point. I have a youth who did wonderfully with the academics and in the dive portions of the class. He however is not a good diver as he does not stay with his buddy or group, tends to ascend to fast and is not attentive during briefings. He is not diving with the group any more as he takes so much watching that I can not keep an eye on the rest of them.

We do use Dive Masters as this is required in the Guide Lines For Safe Scouting and it is prudent to have someone present on the dive that has better emergency training than I do. But, just because we have a Dive Master does not lessen the Scouters responsibility for the youth. I would feel very negligent in my duties if I did not accompany my boys on their dives. By accompanying them I act as the second and sometimes third set of of adult eyes. I am also the buddy for any Jr. OW divers we may have on the outing. I also tend to act as "sweeper", that is I follow the group and "sweep up" anyone who is lagging behind or gets separated from the group. The Dive Masters can not see everything. Especially in the limited viz we have here in the mid-west. Nor can I expect them to be aware of each boys idiosyncrasies. He/she just does not have the time to get to know them.

I do have a complaint of sorts with Dive Masters. All of them to date want to act as underwater tour guides and not as underwater mentors. What I mean by this is that I would like the Dive Masters to actively engage the scouts in conducting the dive, not just following along. Encourage them to do the navigation, have them plan the depth(s), length and the surface interval of the dive(s). If they make a mistake correct them certainly but allow them the practice of the skills they learned in their OW/AOW courses. Otherwise they will never progress beyond entry level divers, and that would be a shame.

I just don't think it is appropriate to add a youth or youths into a diving situation until they have demonstrated the maturity and physical capabilities needed to dive with a buddy safely. A youth needs to participate in a Troops program over an extended period of time and attain a measurable level of self reliance and confidence. This allows Scouters ample time to observe and council them. It is only through this relationship that an accurate assessment of the youths readiness for diving can be formed.

That's my opinion for what it is worth.:cool2:

 

[mmmeenehan]

From the PADI Divemaster duties list:
8. Generally supervise both training and nontraining-related activities by assisting divers and student divers in the planning, organizing and direction of dives.

Sounds like your DMs are DOING rather than ASSISTING.

Most OWC divers are used to being pampered by their DMs. At most dive resort locations the DMs are working for tips so the more they do for divers, the better the tips. I'd think that a few words to your DMs before your dives might help them realize that your scouts want to practice what they learned in their course rather than have the DM do it for them (which is what they are used to).

 

[T23]

You all keep talking about 10 y/o kids taking the class. In order to join you must be 10 1/2 AND through the fifth grade or 11 y/o.

Just to clarify there are currently three different criteria for Boy Scout membership:
1. be at least 10 years old and have completed the 5th grade, or
2. be at least 11 years old, or
3. be at least 10 years old and have earned Arrow of Light.

Granted it is kind of rare, but there are some situations where a boy who is barely 10 years old may have completed 5th grade by having been pushed ahead a grade or where they may have worked hard and fast in 4th grade and earned their Arrow of Light.

So, if a boy is at least 10 and has earned his Arrow of Light he is eligible to immediately bridge over to Boy Scouts... yep, right there, on the spot, on the very day he is signed off on the last requirement if he chooses. Clearly many boys do not do this nor is this widely advertised in terms of Blue and Gold ceremonies and Arrow of Light ceremonies which tend to be the more traditional venues and time of year most Cub Scouts bridge over to Boy Scouts.

Per national advancement policy any scout is eligible to work on any merit badge. Clearly scout age had to be at least one of the topics of discussion in terms of the SCUBA merit badge being approved, not to mention the past history of SCUBA policy within the BSA.

The SCUBA merit badge isn't something that is going to be easily or quickly earned for most scouts. This is probably going to end up being one of the more difficult merit badges for many boys. Sure, some will have what it takes to earn it at age 10 and others might not be able to do it until several years later. In general, I don't think this is going to be much different from what most SCUBA instructors are seeing in terms of 10 year old boys who want to dive. Some boys take to it like a fish and some have to keep working at it. In the end though it really is going to be up to the SCUBA instructor to determine when or if a boy has been able to complete the certification requirements.

Those that are good enough or persistent enough to receive certification hopefully will then have enough opportunities to keep on diving that it will become a favorite past time. Hopefully some of those opportunities will be through scouting!

 

[rligon]

I'm not sure about the other agencies, but here are the PADI rules:
Junior Open Water Divers ages 10-11 years old must dive with a PADI Professional or certified parent/guardian. Dives must not exceed 12 metres /40 feet.
Junior Open Water Divers ages 12-14 years old must dive with a certified adult.
Maybe I'm just optimistic, but I had always regarded this (and will continue to do so) as EACH youth must be accompanied by an adult meeting the requirements, who will serve as the buddy for that individual youth. Maybe the PADI instructor manuals spell this out more clearly?

 

[rligon]

Just reread the new GSS policy, a one-to-one ratio is mandated for scouts under 15:

Each diver under 15 years of age must have an adult buddy certified as an open-water diver who is either the junior diver's parent or an adult approved by the parent
Additional divemasters or instructors are present to maintain a ratio of one trained supervisor to four buddy pairs (eight divers) containing one to four divers under 15 years of age.

 

[The Chairman]

I can live with those rules.

 

[GNX Guy]

We have 2 SCUBA MB counslors in our council as of now. Myself and the dive instructor that is the Chartered Org Rep for the SCUBA Ship that I am the Skipper for.

I'm happy to say that we have 2 scouts in our council that have completed the SCUBA MB this past week. Both were already Jr. OWC. My son (now 12 years old) was the 1st by completing the few extra requirements with the dive insturctor (mentioned above) that he needed to complete beyond the swimming MB and SCUBA Cert requirements listed in the MB book. I, this past Sunday finished up the requirements with a scout from my troop.

Joe

 

[rligon]

Congrats to both of them!

 

[tight rope walker]

I can only use myself as an example. I started air breathing in 1967. I was 13 at the time and about 5' 9'' tall. Yep I was a big kid. We touched very breifly on gas theorys, and I personally believe, that at that age that was a good call. Don't get me wrong, we were taught safety, but at 13, I could have cared less about Boyle, Bert, Haldane, and the like. Butttttttttt there was a tremendous effort placed on physical conditioning. In my time I did not have a bc of any type, nor did I have a spg. My white stagg reg, as the pressure decreased became impossible to breath on. I was not restricted to depth, But I had to always dive with an adult. As I got older, I learned more about theorys, and to be honest, at that point I was interested in them.

But diving equipment has come along way, and in reality it has made diving alot easier and safer. But no matter the gear, I believe you still have to be mentally and physically compotent. And we all know, this happens to differant people at differant ages. So if after an assesment, the potental candidate passess, that's all that should matter regardless of age.

Now, the bigger question to me is, given the state of this crazy world we live in....what's going to happen when little Johnny runs home to his folks, Mr. and Mrs. important, crying that he, unlike his buddys, can't be a diver.

I wouldn't want to be that divemaster/instuctor when that mercedes pulls up your driveway.

 

[KJackson60]

After some consideration and conversation with the other diving adults in our Troop here is what we decided. For a youth to participate in the Troops SCUBA program they must be First Class. Have Scoutmaster approval. Have the dive outing leaders approval. Have earned the Swimming Merit Badge or the Life Saving Merit Badge. We will of course conform to the regulations in the Guide to Safe Scouting and PADI's guidelines regarding Jr. Open Water/Jr. Advanced Open Water divers.

We decided on these guidelines as our program goes beyond earning the SCUBA Merit Badge or Open Water Cert. We wanted to make sure that the youth who are participating in our program are ready physically, mentally and emotionally.

By mandating First Class and one of the two Merit Badges named above we feel that we will have had adequate opportunities to observe and counsel the interested youth. While we we don't want to exclude anyone it is important that everyone who is participating is able to dive safely and be a good dive buddy.