Thank God chivalry is dead. Chivalry was never what most of us in the modern world romanticize it to be. Read a little on the reality and you'll be glad it's gone.
Is diving a friendly sport for women?
- Thread starter carebear
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seaangel
Guest
I have only had one experience where the men on the boat I was diving from were total jerks. That was in Hawaii in very choppy water after the second tank dive while getting back on the boat. We were in a small dive boat that had two ladders on either side they lowered for us to climb up on. I was tired after trying to get back to the boat in the rough water, the boat driver did not try to move the boat over to us we had to make our way to him. Yuck! Before we all rolled into the water he told us due to the rough sea he would have to do this as a drift dive and pick us up. Not!
Anyway the other three divers all swam right on to the boat and made their way up the ladders. Meanwhile once I got there I tried to pull up but the weight belt and my BC/tank all seemed to weigh too much. I asked one of them to take my fins, then pleaded to help me get my weight belt. They just ignored me. I finally managed to hang on with one arm and sling the weight belt onto the side of the boat. After I was half-way back up this ladder, I was exhausted and felt I had swallowed half the Pacific ocean. These guys were all chilling out drinking soda. I flopped in and sat right on the side. I was disgusted by that time. But, I will have to say that was one of the most beautiful dives I have ever been on. We had been to Fish Rock, and Lanai Cathedrals.
That was also my third dive after OW, and since then I have found that the more I do for myself, the more guys tend to offer to help me. I am self sufficient and don't rely on them, but I find if I am having a difficult time ususally someone helps. I have helped many guys too, so it can go both ways.
Anyway the other three divers all swam right on to the boat and made their way up the ladders. Meanwhile once I got there I tried to pull up but the weight belt and my BC/tank all seemed to weigh too much. I asked one of them to take my fins, then pleaded to help me get my weight belt. They just ignored me. I finally managed to hang on with one arm and sling the weight belt onto the side of the boat. After I was half-way back up this ladder, I was exhausted and felt I had swallowed half the Pacific ocean. These guys were all chilling out drinking soda. I flopped in and sat right on the side. I was disgusted by that time. But, I will have to say that was one of the most beautiful dives I have ever been on. We had been to Fish Rock, and Lanai Cathedrals.
That was also my third dive after OW, and since then I have found that the more I do for myself, the more guys tend to offer to help me. I am self sufficient and don't rely on them, but I find if I am having a difficult time ususally someone helps. I have helped many guys too, so it can go both ways.
I've never had any problem on a boat. I can carry my own gear, set up myself and can get off and on the boat on my own. If the dive op service includes taking your gear on and off the boat and setting up for you, that's fine, same servie for all divers regardless of gender. Sorry girls, I'm not a women's libber or anything, but it really annoys me when I see women divers who need help with their equipment and who expect to get assistance on and off the boat. If you can't manage yourself, how are you going to help your buddy if they get into trouble and are relying on you?
Where I find the sport unfriendly to women is in the dive shops. Most are male owned and staffed. Just because you can order it with pink and purple accent colors doesn't mean it's women's gear. We do have different needs when it comes to equipement and I'd love to see a dive shop run by women who would understand that and stock accordingly. There are brands and models that just work better for us then others, even if they're not specifically for women.
Where I find the sport unfriendly to women is in the dive shops. Most are male owned and staffed. Just because you can order it with pink and purple accent colors doesn't mean it's women's gear. We do have different needs when it comes to equipement and I'd love to see a dive shop run by women who would understand that and stock accordingly. There are brands and models that just work better for us then others, even if they're not specifically for women.
Jersey
Contributor
My sentiments exactly! If you can't be self sufficient - when your buddy gets into trouble, we now have 2 victims.
Scubababy - don't throw up your hand! We've all been there, nothing wrong with admitting to fear, and I apologize if my fluffy hand-holding-friend came off that way. Check out dives - first I cried, then I threw up, at depth. But I got over it. So night diving isn't for you, you tried it. Me thinks ice diving probably isn't for me.
Sorry your LDS isn't woman friendly S-Wife. Mine is all male as well, luckily most are a little older, married to pretty strong women, who are also divers, & I think that helps with their understanding of the distinct gearing differences - & I don't mean pink & purple stripes.
Scubababy - don't throw up your hand! We've all been there, nothing wrong with admitting to fear, and I apologize if my fluffy hand-holding-friend came off that way. Check out dives - first I cried, then I threw up, at depth. But I got over it. So night diving isn't for you, you tried it. Me thinks ice diving probably isn't for me.
Sorry your LDS isn't woman friendly S-Wife. Mine is all male as well, luckily most are a little older, married to pretty strong women, who are also divers, & I think that helps with their understanding of the distinct gearing differences - & I don't mean pink & purple stripes.
this is why I posted the question in the first place, I had a bad experience at the LDS my boyfriend frequents and wondered if this is the attitude in general or just one instance.
Being unfamiliar with diving, I mistakenly disagreed with an opinion of one of the employees...whoa big mistake...I could almost feel the testosterone building in the room. Without explaining himself, he says to my boyfriend...take your girlfriend home now.
:whoa:
Without going into major detail, it turned me off almost completely to diving.
I'm lurking, but I'm tired of arguing about Customs law over in Basic.
I am aware of one instructor who exhibited a bias against females. My original OW instructor held back all of the females for failing to perform various skills at the Confined Water stage, then failed to work with them. When some of the guys ran short of air, he took the females' tanks and had them exit the pool. He also ripped my wife's mask off when she didn't comply with his instruction fast enough. Needless to say, we changed shops immediately. Every once in awhile, I still enjoy stopping by to tell the owner about my latest purchase (dry suit, doubles) while spending no more than $3.00 to buy something like defog.
This is the only instance of which I am aware.
I see nothing wrong with asking for help with your rig. In fact, we train our students to avoid the swing and lift method of doning a BC because it can stress the back. You can also hit someone.
None of the people (male and female) I dive with would hold it against someone if they asked for help. We do get annoyed when we are asked to do stupid things, such as tank changeovers.
Carebear, the person who did that was utterly out of line. Gender is irrelevant. The issue is customer service and respect.
If this wasn't some form of a very bad joke on the LDS' part, I certainly hope that neither of you will frequent the shop again.
I am aware of one instructor who exhibited a bias against females. My original OW instructor held back all of the females for failing to perform various skills at the Confined Water stage, then failed to work with them. When some of the guys ran short of air, he took the females' tanks and had them exit the pool. He also ripped my wife's mask off when she didn't comply with his instruction fast enough. Needless to say, we changed shops immediately. Every once in awhile, I still enjoy stopping by to tell the owner about my latest purchase (dry suit, doubles) while spending no more than $3.00 to buy something like defog.
This is the only instance of which I am aware.
I see nothing wrong with asking for help with your rig. In fact, we train our students to avoid the swing and lift method of doning a BC because it can stress the back. You can also hit someone.
None of the people (male and female) I dive with would hold it against someone if they asked for help. We do get annoyed when we are asked to do stupid things, such as tank changeovers.
Carebear, the person who did that was utterly out of line. Gender is irrelevant. The issue is customer service and respect.
If this wasn't some form of a very bad joke on the LDS' part, I certainly hope that neither of you will frequent the shop again.
:sigh:
Irishdiver
Contributor
Ladies, your posts are illuminating. In reply, can I say the following:
1. Very many men (I know this, since I am one) feel it's important to help ladies with their gear: this stuff is heavy, most of you are not built the same way as us, and we're trying to be gentlemanly. If you have a problem with this, let us know and we will respect your wishes. In the water, the weight makes no difference, so if you can't handle your gear in the water then you have a problem. But I'm not telling you anything you don't already know there.
2. In my club, everyone helps everyone to suit up: this means that men help female members and the other male members to don their tanks, throw their weight belts into the boat, etc, etc. If you're not diving until the next stick, you give your colleague a dig out suiting up and check him/her out. That's how it should be done: safety is paramount, gender is irrelevant.
3. If you're not happy doing a night dive, a drift dive, a deep dive, or any other dive, then don't do it. Again, your gender is irrelevant. Any shop that insists any diver does something they really don't want to do is out of line. Scubababy, some of my best dives have been SHALLOW (less than two metres) night dives: the life and colours have been incredible and you won't be uncomfortable in a depth where you can easily stand up. Please, give it a try again and don't let your previous experiences put you off.
4. Ladies, do not tolerate male a**hole divers or instructors. There is far too much macho BS in diving that gets people killed: this is not a competitive sport, you are every bit as good as your male dive buddies, so tell the fellas with under developed d*cks and egos to forget the crap and go diving.
Sorry for the rant. This is something I feel strongly about.
ut:
1. Very many men (I know this, since I am one) feel it's important to help ladies with their gear: this stuff is heavy, most of you are not built the same way as us, and we're trying to be gentlemanly. If you have a problem with this, let us know and we will respect your wishes. In the water, the weight makes no difference, so if you can't handle your gear in the water then you have a problem. But I'm not telling you anything you don't already know there.
2. In my club, everyone helps everyone to suit up: this means that men help female members and the other male members to don their tanks, throw their weight belts into the boat, etc, etc. If you're not diving until the next stick, you give your colleague a dig out suiting up and check him/her out. That's how it should be done: safety is paramount, gender is irrelevant.
3. If you're not happy doing a night dive, a drift dive, a deep dive, or any other dive, then don't do it. Again, your gender is irrelevant. Any shop that insists any diver does something they really don't want to do is out of line. Scubababy, some of my best dives have been SHALLOW (less than two metres) night dives: the life and colours have been incredible and you won't be uncomfortable in a depth where you can easily stand up. Please, give it a try again and don't let your previous experiences put you off.
4. Ladies, do not tolerate male a**hole divers or instructors. There is far too much macho BS in diving that gets people killed: this is not a competitive sport, you are every bit as good as your male dive buddies, so tell the fellas with under developed d*cks and egos to forget the crap and go diving.
Sorry for the rant. This is something I feel strongly about.
ut:
carebear,
Even if you were totally wrong about what you said, the reaction you received was worse.
Even if you were totally wrong about what you said, the reaction you received was worse.
Irishdiver once bubbled...
2. In my club, everyone helps everyone to suit up: this means that men help female members and the other male members to don their tanks, throw their weight belts into the boat, etc, etc. If you're not diving until the next stick, you give your colleague a dig out suiting up and check him/her out. That's how it should be done: safety is paramount, gender is irrelevant.
Agreed. There are times when we get in the water 150+ lbs of gear.
Each of us appreciates the help we get from the crew and each other.
In case I wasn't clear before, that shop's treatment of Carebear was beyond the pale. End of discussion
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