Is Deep Air / Light Deco (bounce?) Discussible on ScubaBoard?

[Jax]

What, then, is the purpose of the discussion?

 

[Hank49]

That is essentially the mechanism I was referring to in the previous post ... if you know you have adequate gas for a certain depth and time at that depth ... you write it down on a slate. When the numbers on your bottom timer match the numbers on your slate, it's time to go.

I don't know if there are currently any dive computers out there that would let you program an audible alarm. But I agree that some kind of mental "trigger" has to be arranged prior to the dive.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

something like this?
Seiko® Men's TiCN Chronograph Watch : mens jewelry : mens jewelry : jcpenney

 

[DiveNav]

personally I do not like deep diving as my body doesn't get along that well with all those tiny bubbles.

But sometime ... sh#$@ happens.

This thread made me go back to a "deep bounce (light deco) dive" I did in Cozumel a while ago (Devil's throat ... it is a short tunnel in the reef).

The day before this dive, the DM told us that due to the depth (my max depth was 134ft) this dive was optional.
As an Instructor (in vacation) I knew that this dive was going to put me in deco (I was expecting few minutes at 10ft ... that would eventually clear during the ascent) and I was just a bit worried because we only had AL80 (they did not have anything else there) ... and I like to breath ..... a lot

Anyway, I decided to go for it with the contingency plan to skip the tunnel penetration in case my pressure was < 2,000PSI before entering the short tunnel.

What surprised me was the fact that I was the only diver a bit worried on the boat (and the only Instructor .... all the other divers on the boat were OW or AOW)

As expected, at the exit of the tunnel I was in deco (10ft, 2min), so I made sure to move up as soon as possible cruising for a while above the reef in the 60.
While there with the DM, this woman saw a turtle down on the edge of the reef (maybe 120 -130?) and decided to chase it .... both disappeared for few minutes .... OMG

I looked at the DM and indicated to him that THAT was not right .... he made an expression like "do you think I am crazy to go after her?"

This lady finally came back, the DM made the whole group do a long safety stop at 15ft ... and I finished the dive with 300PSI

So, I did 1 deep bounce dive and I went in deco but by the time we surfaced my max NDL was <80%.

I bet this lady surfaced while still in deco ..... but she had no clue ... nothing happened to her and kept diving the rest of the week. Probably, as of this day, that lady still has not realized that that day she was in danger.

Once back on the boat I was mad; I did talk to the DM about this and to the lady's friends and they "convinced" her to skip the following dive.

So, my point here is that a deep bounce "light" deco dive MIGHT be acceptable IF you know what you are getting into (and You should always have the option to abort the dive), but, it is not acceptable - and should NOT be proposed - to people that have no clue.

Alberto (aka eDiver)

 

[dumpsterDiver]

personally I do not like deep diving as my body doesn't get along that well with all those tiny bubbles.

But sometime ... sh#$@ happens.

This thread made me go back to a "deep bounce (light deco) dive" I did in Cozumel a while ago (Devil's throat ... it is a short tunnel in the reef).

The day before this dive, the DM told us that due to the depth (my max depth was 134ft) this dive was optional.
As an Instructor (in vacation) I knew that this dive was going to put me in deco (I was expecting few minutes at 10ft ... that would eventually clear during the ascent) and I was just a bit worried because we only had AL80 (they did not have anything else there) ... and I like to breath ..... a lot

Anyway, I decided to go for it with the contingency plan to skip the tunnel penetration in case my pressure was < 2,000PSI before entering the short tunnel.

What surprised me was the fact that I was the only diver a bit worried on the boat (and the only Instructor .... all the other divers on the boat were OW or AOW)

As expected, at the exit of the tunnel I was in deco (10ft, 2min), so I made sure to move up as soon as possible cruising for a while above the reef in the 60.
While there with the DM, this woman saw a turtle down on the edge of the reef (maybe 120 -130?) and decided to chase it .... both disappeared for few minutes .... OMG

I looked at the DM and indicated to him that THAT was not right .... he made an expression like "do you think I am crazy to go after her?"

This lady finally came back, the DM made the whole group do a long safety stop at 15ft ... and I finished the dive with 300PSI

So, I did 1 deep bounce dive and I went in deco but by the time we surfaced my max NDL was <80%.

I bet this lady surfaced while still in deco ..... but she had no clue ... nothing happened to her and kept diving the rest of the week. Probably, as of this day, that lady still has not realized that that day she was in danger.

Once back on the boat I was mad; I did talk to the DM about this and to the lady's friends and they "convinced" her to skip the following dive.

So, my point here is that a deep bounce "light" deco dive MIGHT be acceptable IF you know what you are getting into (and You should always have the option to abort the dive), but, it is not acceptable - and should NOT be proposed - to people that have no clue.

Alberto (aka eDiver)

You are killing me dude! You are pissed about other people not being safe and YOU are an instructor, go into deco (with no redundancy), then instead of moving expeditiously toward the surface, you continue to dive at 60 feet and to top it off, you end the dive with hardly any reserve (considering you did a deco dive)....

 

[DiveNav]

You are killing me dude! ...

As I said, sometime sh@#$ happens :depressed:

I got caught in the "group mentality".

BTW, ~60ft was the "deep stop" before ascending shallower and I had conservative settings ON.

I think I learned something from that experience: get at least an HP100

 

[Centrals]

As I said, sometime sh@#$ happens :depressed:

I got caught in the "group mentality".

BTW, ~60ft was the "deep stop" before ascending shallower and I had conservative settings ON.

I think I learned something from that experience: get at least an HP100

You were NOT equipped to do the dive.
If you are trained and dived a twin set with suitable one or two deco mixes.....you will surface with more than 100 bar and shorter deco obligation. And you can easily taken care of that female diver if you felt like it.

 

[Jax]

Well, well, haven't we derailed this thread?

Still waiting -- have not heard anything about why one would (a) want to dive deep on air nor (b) what's so great about it?

 

[Adobo]

The "murk screen" from the pnw continues to <u>obfuscate</u> my opinions as something different from what my opinions actually are. I have worked as an instructor/guide for nearly 10 years; ~ half Oahu and half Maui. I personally know over 50 non-tech trained 20+ year veterans with 2000+ dives. No body is even remotely considering 25 minutes @ 140 ft. So; no body needs to know how to plan that dive, no body needs to know the optimal gear choices for that dive, no body needs to know the deco strategy choices they have available for that dive and the usual gas for those veteran divers is air.

PADI, NAUI, SSI and I bet a bunch of other agencies draw a pretty specific boundary as to where recreational diving ends. Beyond that, these major agencies will tell you to get more training.

You are proposing that this boundary is somehow not applicable for those with "more experience".You never qualify what "more experience" actually means. And you never qualify where the new boundary would be, or if there is even to be one. So I gave you an example of a dive that is beyond 130ft. And BTW, someone who has taken proper instruction on how to conduct dives to this range, 25mins at 140ft constitutes "hardly any deco".

But let's give you a slightly different example. Let's say a diver and a buddy want to do a bounce dive to 170ft. Let's say that it will take 4 minutes to get to depth and the plan is to look around for 6 minutes before ascending. Let's further say that this is a boat dive.Which classes from the regular recreational diving curriculum would have taught this duo how to execute that dive? (I am anticipating the answer to be - there isn't a recreational class that teaches this. ) Is it your position that this type of diving be learned from the internet from folks like you and VDGM?

The topic of this thread remains the same. Whether any Tech divers care to discuss the topic of this thread is a moot point. IMHO, the most at risk divers from the dangers of "deep air bounce, hardly any deco, if any" are neither Tech divers or non-tech trained 20 year veterans with 2000+ dives in Hawaii. I did not start this thread in either the Tech forum or the Hawaii 'Ohana forum, because my intended target audience is not frequenting those forums.

My point was simple. Doing thousands of dives in 40ft of water does not give you the knowledge to conduct a dive to 180ft. You just can't know what you don't know by doing the same "signature dive" over and over again. On those people who are "at risk" as you say, I would argue that they deserve better than questionable advice from misinformed people who don't really know much better themselves.

I know a few years back, this very type of thing became very real in the "murk" of the PNW when a misguided/misinformed instructor led a group of untrained/ill equipped divers to 180ft on a deep air bounce dive. I don't myself know all the details but if I recall correctly, the results left a deep impression on people like Bob and Lynne.

There are perhaps three shops and a couple independent Instructors on Maui that offer Extended Range / Deco training, and I am on descent to good relationship status with three of them. 3 out of the top 5 best tech instructors on Maui are SB members, and the "Recreational" CD for one of the Rec/Tec shops is also a member. If we now expand my first paragraph's 50+ circle of peers to include the Instructors in this paragraph, far and away the most common dive to 160'-180' is a pair of those peers, on air, for a quick peek, and then back up to 80' max for the rest of this multi level, hardly any deco (if any) dive.

Wouldn't it be great if anybody who was contemplating a deep air bounce dive on a single tank had at least the benefit of having taking instruction on proper deep diving like your friends have had? You know, so they would know things like how to plan such a dive, how to select the proper gas, how to select the proper equipment? So on and so forth. Because without it, they are making uneducated decisions to pursue an activity which does not have a wide margin for error.

Well, there is no data to use but do you not see the possibility that if you could figure out the number of air dives made annually world wide and the number of non-air dives made annually world wide, the possibility exists that per dives deaths are lower with air dives than with non-air dives?

This is the kind of information that you and VDGM want to propagate to those who don't know better? Really? Yes, deeper diving (which is usually the only time helium would be used) is more dangerous than diving in a 40ft reef in Hawaii or Florida (where air is used). That is not quite the same thing as saying "Diving on air is safer than any kind of diving."

What I find curious is that you are so quick to characterize me as making stuff up (related to life insurance for divers) and yet you let all kinds sketchy information get passed around by the deep air proponents without so much as a whimper. Or worse, you actually try to defend the sketchy information. Is that what you honestly consider an "adult conversation"?

 

[Adobo]

Well, well, haven't we derailed this thread?

Still waiting -- have not heard anything about why one would (a) want to dive deep on air nor (b) what's so great about it?

As my open water instructor told me during the first day of class, don't hold your breath.

 

[Centrals]

Well, well, haven't we derailed this thread?

Still waiting -- have not heard anything about why one would (a) want to dive deep on air nor (b) what's so great about it?

Did plenty of ow technical deep air dives(>350) over last 13 yrs. Max depth was 62m.
My answer to your questions:
a. Air dive is so much easy to prepare than trimix. There are many places in this world that He is impossible to obtain. The choice is entirely up to you and do not let anyone to force you to do a deep air dive if you are not trained and equipped.
b. Diving is for fun and nothing to brag about.

Many diving agencies run technical deep air courses so are they all WRONG?