Is certification necessary for shallow water diving?

[Bigbella]

@tursiops Yes I totally get that, but does someone need to go through training and pay someone to tell them, “Don’t hold your breath.”?

Considering that the mammalian diving reflex / autonomic nervous system kicks in and "encourages" breath-holding upon immersion, through bradycardia and even involuntary apnea in cooler water (below only about 20˚ C and an odd safety issue for FFM use); that regular breathing on scuba, is not in the least bit intuitive to a newcomer; and that a fatal embolism is possible in just over two meters of water, the answer is yes . . .

 

[34109411]

Considering that the mammalian diving reflex / autonomic nervous system kicks in and encourages breath-holding upon immersion, through bradycardia and even in cooler water (below only 20˚ C and an odd safety issue with FFM use); that regular breathing on scuba, is not in the least bit intuitive to a newcomer; and that a fatal embolism is possible in just over two meters of water, the answer is yes . . .

 

[ballsie]

It's not a hypothetical scenario, as there are numerous filling stations, used by hundreds of divers yearly.
And they're not located in Wonderland but in the real world.

When you own a cylinder, it is your responsibility to have a valid hydro.

We can start an endless discussion about this, in the end everybody will admit that US tort laws would make a service like this simply impossible.
Tort law allows for stupidity to be rewarded with monetary compensation. Tort lawyers will totally disagree, as their livelihood depends on it.

good morning buddy just a helpful reminder there is life outside the USA

 

[34109411]

good morning buddy just a helpful reminder there is life outside the USA

 

[adurso]

My dive training consisted of:” do not hold your breath” “when you go down, if your ears hurt, pinch your nose and blow”, when it becomes difficult to breathe come up no faster than your slowest bubble”

Some of us predate easily accessible classes and organizations.

I bought cards in the late 70s to make it easier to get fills.

Certification is not necessary for any diving.

It does make it safer…

 

[Belzelbub]

Certification is not necessary for any diving.

It does make it safer…

I'd modify this a bit.

Certification is not necessary for some diving. It is needed to book with dive charters, use some private/public sites, and get tanks filled by a shop. It also removes some liability for whoever is taking the individual diving.

Certification doesn't make diving safer. Training does.

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

I'd modify this a bit.

Certification is not necessary for some diving. It is needed to book with dive charters, use some private/public sites, and get tanks filled by a shop. It also removes some liability for whoever is taking the individual diving.

Certification doesn't make diving safer. Training does.

Amen.

 

[adurso]

I'd modify this a bit.

Certification is not necessary for some diving. It is needed to book with dive charters, use some private/public sites, and get tanks filled by a shop. It also removes some liability for whoever is taking the individual diving.

Certification doesn't make diving safer. Training does.

Quality training does.

One need not be a member of an organization to provide quality training.

 

[Scott G. Bonser]

I am not here to say it is not necessary to get certified, but I would like to have a discussion and hear other people’s opinions. Do you believe that from a safety stand point, it is necessary to get certified if you plan to stay in the 40 foot range? I know, “No shop will rent or sell you gear!”

My oldest son was certified at age 14, and the shop allowed me to be in the pool with him to observe. Needless to say I not was super thrilled at the extent of his training. No real work on buoyancy, just kneel on the bottom and clear your mask, remove your primary and grab your octo, take your buddies octo for out of air practice, etc… At that point I knew I was not comfortable with him doing deepish dives. I did take him to a pool we had access to, and we worked on his buoyancy, and after a minute his buoyancy was better than mine. Because I was not comfortable with his training, we have stuck to Blue Heron bridge and Lauderdale by the sea. In those very easy dives, he did great. Also the book work was not very through, mostly at home computer stuff. Dive tables were briefly looked over, and as we were looking over them with the instructor, I realized how little I remembered about them after my certification 20 years prior. The instructor did say something along the line of “Just get a computer and you won’t need to know the tables.” This shop is no longer open today. I feel as if I wasted money on his certification.

Part of the reason I ask is because I have friends that have shown interest in diving. I have allowed them to use my back up gear and we swam around in a pool. They did great, no problems at all. One friend and I went to a small private lake and swam around. He asked me, “Why should I spend $1,000 on certification when you have all the gear I need? Plus the computer tells me everything I need to know.”

Sorry for the late night ramblings, I am on some pain medications.

After quite a few discussions with various other divers, instructors, and long time seasoned SCUBA Professionals. We aren’t quite sure what has happened to the training programs for SCUBA that we had when we first certified. The lack of physics and other scientific studies and the effects on the human body. How to use a Navy Dive Table ( …all I ever used for a long time…) then the physical skills needed to properly use the equipment safely, not to mention this is ‘Life Support Equipment’ allowing us to enjoy our diving activities. …just rely on your computer. Kind of like we do in our every day life. The computer thinks for us…….until. All trained divers need the basics and a way to go to a ‘backup’ system if it becomes necessary. Why do some, maybe more than just some SCUBA education programs avoid teaching this stuff we learned in our basic SCUBA classes back in the day??

This isn’t just a ‘pool intro’ this is for ‘real’ diving.

 

[tarponchik]

Since people die without training ing, I'd say yes.

We do not really have an answer for this because these days all dead divers were trained. We can't compare death rate in a group of trained divers with death rate in a group of untrained divers and make a reliable conclusion.