Is certification necessary for shallow water diving?

[OMyMyOHellYes]

We do not really have an answer for this because these days all dead divers were trained. We can't compare death rate in a group of trained divers with death rate in a group of untrained divers and make a reliable conclusion.

The question on the table for discussion has NOTHING to do with training (or lack thereof).

It was about Cert cards.

Well, not CARDS per se, but certification and thus by extension cards.

 

[dmaziuk]

We do not really have an answer for this because these days all dead divers were trained. We can't compare death rate in a group of trained divers with death rate in a group of untrained divers and make a reliable conclusion.

Sure we can: there are zero deaths among untrained divers, therefore untrained divers are 100% safe. Also immortal.

 

[boulderjohn]

Why do some, maybe more than just some SCUBA education programs avoid teaching this stuff we learned in our basic SCUBA classes back in the day??

So what specifically do you mean by "back in the day"? A thread a couple years ago showed that current OW scuba courses have more requirements than they did 30 years ago. The buddy breathing requirement was replaced by alternate air source donation, and a bunch of other skills were added.

Learning to use tables does not teach you anything about the basics of diving. It teaches you how to use the tables. Period. Because it was often taught in conjunction with decompression theory, many people mistakenly think it taught decompression theory, but it didn't. You can teach decompression theory in conjunction with teaching how to use computers, too.

 

[Scott G. Bonser]

So what specifically do you mean by "back in the day"? A thread a couple years ago showed that current OW scuba courses have more requirements than they did 30 years ago. The buddy breathing requirement was replaced by alternate air source donation, and a bunch of other skills were added.

Learning to use tables does not teach you anything about the basics of diving. It teaches you how to use the tables. Period. Because it was often taught in conjunction with decompression theory, many people mistakenly think it taught decompression theory, but it didn't. You can teach decompression theory in conjunction with teaching how to use computers, too.

Good call, Boulderjohn. Yes you can teach decompression theory using computers. Do all sanctioned certification courses do that? It should be fundamental. I believe it is, however I have read and heard instances to the contrary…even here on Scubaboard.

 

[boulderjohn]

Good call, Boulderjohn. Yes you can teach decompression theory using computers. Do all sanctioned certification courses do that? It should be fundamental. I believe it is, however I have read and heard instances to the contrary…even here on Scubaboard.

You can have lousy instructors skipping requirements anywhere and any time. According to the History of NAUI written chiefly by founder Al Tillman, they knew that some instructors were giving out cards before students had completed the course from the very beginning (1960), and they knew there were cases where students got certification cards without doing any of the course at all. As a career educator, I can assure you that things like that go on in schools and colleges all over the world.

I taught both the table version of the OW course and the table version. Students who took the table version of the course learned to use tables with only the briefest of mentions of computers, and they then went out and dived using computers. The computer version tells the students what a generic computer does. The PADI version has an online simulator showing how things change on a generic computer as the diver ascends and descends during a dive. I can't guarantee that all instructors use that simulation in class, but it is part of the student materials.

 

[tarponchik]

The question on the table for discussion has NOTHING to do with training (or lack thereof).

It was about Cert cards.

Well, not CARDS per se, but certification and thus by extension cards.

Can you get a C-card w/o training?

 

[adurso]

Can you get a C-card w/o training?

Well, when shops and charter boats stated asking for a card a group of us who had been diving together for years paid $35.00 to a NAUI instructor who gave us all cards…

Modern sensibilities may vary.

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

Can you get a C-card w/o training?

Alternatively phrased, "Can you get training w/o a C-card?"

But to your point of getting a C-card without training, in a 1+1/2 day pool-to-cool cert course, 4 "dives" cumulative total of 40 minutes underwater for the open water portion, I'd argue "yes". Ask me how I know.

 

[James79]

I mean, photo shop is a thing....

 

[tarponchik]

Alternatively phrased, "Can you get training w/o a C-card?"

But to your point of getting a C-card without training, in a 1+1/2 day pool-to-cool cert course, 4 "dives" cumulative total of 40 minutes underwater for the open water portion, I'd argue "yes". Ask me how I know.

Oh boy. But, at least, the word "training" was present in the post I replied to.