Instructor vs Solo Cert

[NW Dive Dawg]

So I was just thinking (which is awesome for me)......... that being an Instructor and certified and fully supported and condoned by my agency to dive with uncertified divers in open water......that the Instructor rating should also qualify as a solo certification. Some may even contend that an instructor diving with uncertified divers has even more risk than a solo dive. Others will contend that if the students have been trained properly, then the risk is less.

Then there is the issue of the almighty dollar....and if that's the issue with an agency then an instructor should be able to just pay the fee and get the card.

For the record, now and when teaching, I always dive a fully redundant back mount pony, carry a back-up computer and a DSMB.

Maybe the better question is…….. Isn’t an instructor diving open water with an uncertified diver technically diving solo?
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[Robert H. Diver]

 

[grantctobin]

So I was just thinking (which is awesome for me)......... that being an Instructor and certified and fully supported and condoned by my agency to dive with uncertified divers in open water......that the Instructor rating should also qualify as a solo certification. Some may even contend that an instructor diving with uncertified divers has even more risk than a solo dive. Others will contend that if the students have been trained properly, then the risk is less.

Then there is the issue of the almighty dollar....and if that's the issue with an agency then an instructor should be able to just pay the fee and get the card.

For the record, now and when teaching, I always dive a fully redundant back mount pony, carry a back-up computer and a DSMB.

Maybe the better question is…….. Isn’t an instructor diving open water with an uncertified diver technically diving solo?
.

The average OW instructor can't be trusted to teach, let alone dive by him or herself.

From the agency perspective, I'd assert the largest difference is that as an instructor in a standard teaching configuration, your "redundant bailout" is either your students or the surface. You lose one of those when you're by yourself. Your use of an additional cylinder on your back is outside of that standard OW configuration.

 

[Vicko]

I'm able to issue myself a solo card, as well as ice diver, take that capitalists.
The little detail that I don't get close to ice unless it's enclosed in a glass does not seam to bother anyone.

 

[inquis]

Shouldn't the instructor be close enough to head off issues with the student? Therefore, they should be close enough to use the students's alternate air source (or CESA). You'll note that at least with PADI, a "plain" instructor may not teach the Solo specialty. You need to hold the specialty or a technical certification yourself.

I think another interesting question is why is a technical certificate not accepted by operators in lieu of a solo certificate for non-technical solo dives? (I'm assuming they don't, of course.) Assuming you had the Instructor rating, you could teach the Solo specialty class.

 

[tursiops]

. Isn’t an instructor diving open water with an uncertified diver technically diving solo?

No, because (a) the instructor is not trained, certified, or experienced in solo diving, (b) is not diving with gear required for solo diving, and (c) has redundant air right there at arm's length from the student.

 

[TMHeimer]

The average OW instructor can't be trusted to teach, let alone dive by him or herself.

From the agency perspective, I'd assert the largest difference is that as an instructor in a standard teaching configuration, your "redundant bailout" is either your students or the surface. You lose one of those when you're by yourself. Your use of an additional cylinder on your back is outside of that standard OW configuration.

I found that pretty much every one of the 13 or so instructors I assisted could be trusted to teach very well. Maybe I was lucky.

 

[TMHeimer]

No, because (a) the instructor is not trained, certified, or experienced in solo diving, (b) is not diving with gear required for solo diving, and (c) has redundant air right there at arm's length from the student.

I understand what you're saying and don't disagree. OTOH, I see the point the OP is making. My guess would be a fair majority of instructors could dive solo just as safely as solo certified non-instructors. Unfortunately I doubt there are any stats to prove or disprove that. Of course they would have to have the redundant equipment. An instructor friend of mine at the shop here got his Self Reliant Cert. a couple of years ago and said he enjoyed it. I can't recall, but he may have done some of whatever the required dives by himself anyway and reported that he did them (not sure on that). Wait, now that I think of it, he got the self r. cert. on vacation and did the solo dives back here locally -- I believe he needed a certain number to now be able to teach it.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

No, because (a) the instructor is not trained, certified, or experienced in solo diving, (b) is not diving with gear required for solo diving, and (c) has redundant air right there at arm's length from the student.

I guess you didn't read my post. I am trained (self) and very experienced in solo diving. I dive with the gear that is required for a solo diving cert. My 19cf pony is less than an arms length away and far more predictable than a student.

 

[formernuke]

technical certificate not accepted by operators in lieu of a solo certificate for non-technical solo dives?

Depends on operator. Most I've talked to here do, hence why I didn't bother to get a solo card.