Instructor vs Solo Cert

[DiveProKoko]

I am trained (self) and very experienced in solo diving. I dive with the gear that is required for a solo diving cert. My 19cf pony is less than an arms length away and far more predictable than a student.

You bring up an interesting point. Assuming you had the right equipment, why wouldn't an agency recognize an OW Instructor as "solo" certified? That same agency entrusts you, the OW instructor, with the lives of multiple not yet certified students who are basically an "air source" for you and nothing more at that point. Replace the student air source with a pony and voila! LOL! Sounds pretty self reliant (and more) to me!

 

[Vicko]

90% of divers ever made could dive solo as accidents are rare.
However if something does happen a ow instructor or tec diver can't magically create a air source just because he has a plastic card.

 

[boulderjohn]

To be a self-reliant instructor for PADI, you have to have the self-reliant certification yourself or be a tech diver as well as experience diving using the approved self-reliant (solo) methods.

I think another interesting question is why is a technical certificate not accepted by operators in lieu of a solo certificate for non-technical solo dives? (I'm assuming they don't, of course.) Assuming you had the Instructor rating, you could teach the Solo specialty class.

The dive shop I used to use (sadly gone) for my winters in Florida had a rule requiring buddies for recreational dives. So when I was on the boat heading out, the DM would make sure I was buddied with someone. The DM knew me well.

My next dive with them, possibly the next day, might be a tech dive, with the same DM. On those dives, he had no problem with me diving solo.

I qualified to teach the self-reliant course, so I got certified to instruct so that I could show the card and dive solo on the rereational dives. I had no thought of actually certifying anyone for that, but I ended up certifying a bunch of my tech students for pretty much the same reason.

 

[tursiops]

I guess you didn't read my post. I am trained (self) and very experienced in solo diving. I dive with the gear that is required for a solo diving cert. My 19cf pony is less than an arms length away and far more predictable than a student.

I guess you did not read your question, which was about a generic instructor, not you specifically.

 

[boulderjohn]

I guess you didn't read my post. I am trained (self) and very experienced in solo diving. I dive with the gear that is required for a solo diving cert. My 19cf pony is less than an arms length away and far more predictable than a student.

There is more to the PADI course than that. The PADI course is pretty much a beginning tech course. You have to learn about gas management (including SAC rate), very specific dive planning, shooting a DSMB from depth, navigation, etc., and many of the course requirements are not part of instructor training.

 

[formernuke]

and many of

Which is just plain wrong.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

I guess you did not read your question, which was about a generic instructor, not you specifically.

Ok...you got me there... I may not be certified......but I am most definitely certifiable!

I really only want this cert (I guess I should say "card") for warm water land based or liveaboards where they might require it for me to dive solo. My guess is that a lot of boat operations just don't allow Solo because they don't want to deal with back mounted Pony's or Slingers or liability. At least I have a transfill whip now so no worries on pony fills in a place like Bonaire...

Honestly, the whole point for me is just to have the damn card in case someone requires it....and I just don't want to spend the time or money on a course that won't teach me anything. And since I won't be relying on anyone and no one will be relying on me........ and I KNOW for a fact that I am a far more qualified and experienced solo diver than wonder student who's goal is to rack up certification cards with the least amount of dives........ who really cares anyway?

So that leaves me with a new question... What is the typical minimum amount of total dives required to receive a Solo or Self Reliant Diver Cert card? I imagine that it differs a bit by agency but I'll bet it could be as little as 20. Also, do these Solo certs differentiate between being qualified in cold vs warm water?

It's kinda like the whole O2 mafia thing where some can buy it easily and some can't.... and some will sell it with no issues and others act like their dealing with plutonium. But they act like it's all about my safety and their concern for it. In the meanwhile doctors basically give 100% O2 out like candy to dementia induced asthmatic seniors to roll their tanks around the house and down the stairs to the TV room where people are smoking.....and even if these people did receive some basic O2 instruction or paid for an O2 prescription, they've either forgotten it or don't really care anymore anyway. And yes, I totally get that if the old senior ends up lighting his house on fire with the O2 tank being mishandled or misused, then he is putting firefighters and rescuers at substantial risk......but they still give it out like candy anyway.

Also, I can be drunk, stoned, 16 years old with no ID or training and go to a flipp'n gas station and buy all the propane I want and either breath it or blow myself up if I want to and no one cares or feels the need to regulate that.

Now that right there is a bonafide RANT!!!

I think all I really need is a good picture of a Solo or Self Reliant Diver cert card so that I can just fab one up in Photoshop and laminate it onto a blank card. That should get me what I want and relieve any operators from liability!

Cheers!

 

[Bazzathemammoth]

100 dive minimum to attend training. An instructor is only 60 (but 100 to get the cert).

I agree that scuba diving is a hobby that is generally very risk averse.

I enjoy an element of risk in my hobbies/sports so sometimes I struggle with this a bit as it can seem over the top.

 

[Island23]

It isn't the same. A rec instructor only needs 4 specialties to become an instructor. No gas planning is required or carrying of redundant equipment or gas. IDA, the training isn't the same. No basic specialty teaches gas planning, until Solo, next would be like a Tech-1.

To be a real Solo Diver, there's gas planning & you always carry redundant equipment. The main difference is carrying an IGS & Solo Divers are better gas planners. I had to gas plan over 100 times, using SAC, RMV & for different temps & diving seasons. Solo teaches carry/sidemount, twins & backmount, with Pony-40s, the biggest bottle. It teaches rigging & rules, that aren't taught in other specialties.

No, an instructor isn't a certified solo diver or gas planner. An instructor doesn't even have to be Tech-1 or Solo & therefore can not gas plan the same. Solo, for me, also taught DPV gas planning, using SAC & RMV from DPV dives, at different temperatures. There are 1/2 dozen different gas plans for the same say, 60 ft depth dive because of the different available configurations. You then add FFM, DPV & NOX, different ball game. You dive plan for 1/3rds &/or bail, turnaround time & turnaround pressure, dependent on entry/exit. Solo teaches opting for 500 psi, 1/3rds, as opposed to straight 1/3rds & contingency bottle 1/3rds, ect.

Agencies are different, some are geared for Europe in metric & some imperial.

An instructor who dives a single, during a class, isn't in solo configuration & therefore doesn't carry the necessary backup equipment required for self redundancy. He might be skillful, an instructor even a solo diver but in that dive, he isn't configured, self reliant.

There are different levels & ways of adding redundancy but full solo requires an IGS & "all" backup equipment. "Yeah & then your instructor shows up, with a bubbling 1st stage, no wetsuit or OCTO & then inspects your configuration & sees, that I even carry a whistle & he wonders why. Then asks to borrow a whistle."

 

[SlugLife]

IMO, not everyone needs a solo-cert and one may not get much out of the course, but that's not something I'd say too publicly. (I've been solo-diving without a cert for a long time ... although I was perhaps more lucky early on)

When you are diving solo, you need to be extra mindful of redundancy. An instructor could theoretically depend on their students to a limited extent. For example, air-sharing, or having one call 911. However, a competent instructor, with redundant equipment (air, cutting, etc) should theoretically be more qualified. Probably the same with a rescue-cert.

That said, solo (or self-reliant) diving is a different mindset. Are you equipped and thinking through what you would do in an emergency? Are you avoiding scenarios where you might be unable to self-rescue?

My 19cf pony is less than an arms length away and far more predictable than a student.

I'm not an instructor, but these days I have redundant air on EVERY dive. And certainly, if I were to instruct, I would do the same, and probably slung so I could hand it off if absolutely needed.

I really only want this cert (I guess I should say "card") for warm water land based or liveaboards where they might require it for me to dive solo.

As someone without the card, I'd be "screwed" in that situation. Even though I'm more than equipped, and have a few hundred solo-dives. If you're spending thousands of dollars on vacations, it's probably better to just spend the money on the "stupid course" even if you don't really need it.

What is the typical minimum amount of total dives required to receive a Solo or Self Reliant Diver Cert card?

I believe 100 is the standard, though there may be deviations.

Also, I can be drunk, stoned, 16 years old with no ID or training and go to a flipp'n gas station and buy all the propane I want and either breath it or blow myself up if I want to and no one cares or feels the need to regulate that.

Now that right there is a bonafide RANT!!!

I agree, and may be a bit of an anarchist myself. But there's the reality of the 1000s of men with guns and handcuffs who demand I pay taxes and follow absurd rules. Soon, we may not even be able to have gas-stoves!?!

In the context of diving, once you start dealing with dive-shops, dive-boats, etc you'll increasingly run into by-the-book types who demand you follow certain rules no matter how pointless they are. For example, those stupid VIP stickers are a scam. But good luck buying fills without one.