Instructor to instructor communication

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HEY MHK,
Thanks for the input. I truly value the logical perspective that you bring to this forum. I agree with everything that you have said to this point.
My question is this: I have a low attrition rate, but that seems to be the exception. What do you consider the key elements in reducing attrition rate even further?

Cheers,
Sherpa
 
Divesherpa once bubbled...
HEY MHK,
Thanks for the input. I truly value the logical perspective that you bring to this forum. I agree with everything that you have said to this point.
My question is this: I have a low attrition rate, but that seems to be the exception. What do you consider the key elements in reducing attrition rate even further?


Thanks Divesherpa,,

Attrition rate is something that we looked at very carefully and if my memory serves me correctly, I believ DEMA put out the stat that diving retains only 6% of students to be defined as * active* diver's.. I'm sorry I don't remember the exact number nor the exact definition of *active* so let's just use the layman's definition for purposes of discussion..

I firmly believe that the retention rate is so low is that because go through what they believe is the training necessary to become a diver, but then after the training is done many feel as though they are not prepared sufficiently so they feel the sport isn't for them..

In my view, if a student leaves your class and is comfortable, confident and competent it's likely they'll stay in the sport.. If they leave scared, intimidated, certified but told they need to buy a continuing education class next week they're more inclinded to give up.. It's just human nature to try something, go to the recognized leader and if you're uncomfortable it's likely you'll look to golf or tennis, bearing in mind that non-diver's only hear about the fatalities in the newspaper, they really don't know how great it is down there so they simply are apprehensive from the outset..

Just my thoughts..

Later
 
Hey guys, Great topic and thanks for the opportunity to share some thoughts. I'm running out the door and won't be back until Monday. If you have questions you can either hold them until then or e-mail me privately and I'll respond..

Thanks

mhkane@prodigy.net
 
MHK once bubbled...
only 6% of students to be defined as * active* diver's.. I'm sorry I don't remember the exact number nor the exact definition of *active*

The number I heard recently was 5 dives a year is considered 'active'.
 
The student's path to learn Scuba is mixed with various amounts of discovery, lecture and then skill development. The reasons that I see to restrict this from the general population are;

1) Openness. Instructors employ situational awareness... it's the most important part of our job. There are some things that I would freely discuss with other instructors that I would not discuss with students or non-instructors around. Knowing that I have a mixed audience, I would restrict my speech accordingly.

2) Techniques. It does a student little good to know how we manipulate them. Also, if they can get the "answers" to our discovery methods here, then we have short circuited the process.

3) Sensitive documents. While I might like to share a test question, or even a whole test (with answers) to a group of instructors, I would be hesitant to do so with others present.

4) Students. What would be your response if you were having a problem in a pool session? You decide to look up the answers on the internet and find Scubaboard. Then you find your instructor discussing those issues in this forum? Somehow, I feel the student would feel insulted and the instructor's credibility would be undermined.

5) Posers. We have seen more than our fair share of people come to the internet and pretend they know more than they do by mimicking what they read. This forum is not intended to train people to be instructors, and yet someone reading these posts might miss-use the information to pose as an instructor. I have even seen this happen in an AOW class.

6) Incentive. Very rarely in this industry is the DM or AI rewarded. This would at least be a small incentive to be able to finally enter the restricted zone at last. Hey, it ain't the holy of holies, but at least it's a small perk.

As for verification... most agencies will verify an instructor as active or inactive if you provide them with a name and instructor number. We had quite recently an individual who went from having less than 20 dives to being an accomplished instructor who has dived the Andrea Doria on several occasions. While it is impossible to ferret each and every poser on this board (experience is hard to verify and there is only so much time), I feel VERY STRONGLY that if you claim to be an instructor, you had best be on the level. People will listen to you, right or wrong, and if you are a poser you could well endanger lives.

Remember, no decisions have been made on this forum... it's existence or it's security. Speak now or forever hold your keyboard.
 
Net Doc,

I train buddies not students.
(Yes, I actually dive with them...What a concept, huh???)

I expect every single one of them to be competent enough to do any dive within our limits. Trusting them to have my back up BRAIN and GEAR when I need it.

There wouldn't be anything that I wouldn't want them to read on this forum or hear in person.

Someday they might just need it to assist someone else or themselves.

Chicdiver, (I really shouldn't be calling you that but its pretty funny)

You hit home with your comments. You are correct.

I should stick to everyone of the standards provided by the agency I choose to train for

OR

Go to another agency.


I agree 100% with some of your previous posts about it being the instructor not the agency that makes the class.

Ultimately, the instructor chooses the agency and that says it all.
 
willanz,

"There wouldn't be anything that I wouldn't want them to read on this forum or hear in person."

For the most part, I agree. One thing Pete mentioned changed my mind. "Students. What would be your response if you were having a problem in a pool session? You decide to look up the answers on the internet and find Scubaboard. Then you find your instructor discussing those issues in this forum? Somehow, I feel the student would feel insulted and the instructor's credibility would be undermined."

This should be a place where we can discuss students openly and get real feed back from our peers on how to deal with problems we may be having. I know I do this face to face with other instructors and have discussed such issues in PM's. Some teaching techniques are useful because the student doesn't know what is going on. Sometimes I might not have a clue how to proceed with a particularly dense student. I don't want the student to know I think he is dense and I don't want the student to know I'm clueless. He'll find that out in good time when we are no longer teacher and student, but just buddies.

It can be a place we can share openly, or it can be an open forum. If it's an open forum, our open discussion will remain in PM's.
 
NetDoc,

There are some things that I would freely discuss with other instructors that I would not discuss with students or non-instructors around

Not a trick question, just curious, what? Unless it pertains to a specific student you may now have, I don't see the reason why.

I am always a student, and usually a non-instructor. (Not a scuba certified instructor)
 
:tease:

On another forum dedicated to instructors, I posted some modified questions for a First Aid exam along with the answer key. Now, I would never do that if I thought students would have access to it.

There are other "secrets" that students just don't need to know. How I keep them corralled in the shallows, how I defuse a situation. I really don't even want them to know that I worry about such things... they have enough to worry about.

If a dive were to go sour, I might relate to a group of my peers how stoopid I was, but to students, I would turn it into an object lesson. This has NOT happened to me yet, but I am sure it will... and I need a place to vent.
 
Jeez... if I told you, I would have to kill you...

Chill NetDoc, are you sure that answer key was for First Aid and not Lethal Aid? :D

Actually, Walter beat me to post, thanks for answering though. Whatever helps instructors and instruction, I'm for it. If you guys feel a private forum is appropriate here, thats fine. But I would'nt like to see it spread. Or I'll have to start a student only, or in between classes only forum.:D
 

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