Instructor to instructor communication

[The Chairman]

and currently we are exploring this concept amongst the moderators. While all of us moderators seem to have some opinions about the mechanics and focus of this forum, I would like yours... Feel free to PM me or just post the answers to these questions:

1) Should an "Instructor's forum" be closed to all but those who are DM and higher? Should it be restricted to only instructors?

2) Should admission to that forum be in the form of a verifiable cert # and name? (WIll not be given out to the rest of the forum or board)

3) Should the right to assert that you ARE an instructor anywhere on the board be tied to that same verification?

4) Would there be any areas that should remain off-topic, even for such a forum.

I have my own answers to these questions, but will not elaborate until I hear from youse guys first.

 

[MikeFerrara]

cwb once bubbled...


But to make a general comment on your post, to communicate at the peer level you have to be willing to make yourself vulnerable by exposing your methods to criticism (constructive or otherwise).

wb

I can handle that.

I'll list (in one liners as much as possible) some of the things we do that difer from the norm and others can add, comment or criticize as they see fit

BTW this is a PADI class.

Class room

I give a detailed lecture on the mechanics of weighting and balance and how this combined with body position (technique) determines trim and how this relates to streamlinning, buoyancy control and even safety aspects overexertion being able to manage a problem ect. Module 2 and 3

I show video of recreational divers divers. Not many good ones seem to show up on any of the video I have but does show examples of about everything one should not do. I also show videos of cave divers. NOT to promote cave diving but to show what a diver should look like in the water. Eventually I'll get a video housing and take some footage outside of a cave.

During the Module 3 discussion of emergency procedures "stop think act" I give a short presentation of the DAN accident report. I do this because it shows that divers with little training and little recent experience especially when diving "deep" seem to get in trouble the most. Also noted is that in a large percentage of dives where injury occured buoyancy control problems and/or rapid ascents were reported. In other words poor basic skills. Hence, the best way to stay out of trouble...master the basics. I also show the video "A Deceptivly Easy way to Die" To stress diving within your training.

Ill skip the details but we also discuss the buddy system and what it takes tomake it work. I include some current events info like The work certain magazines and agencies have done to promote solo diving.

There is more especially concerning Dive planning but I'll leave some of that for later.

 

[Butch103]

I am not an instructor, however that is still my aspiration. I would love to see the forum left open for all to read. I am sitting on the fence on permission to post. If I have a question I suppose I could PM the individual for a response and thereby keeping the "traffic" on the forum minimized.........:boom:

 

[devilfish]

NetDoc once bubbled...
and currently we are exploring this concept amongst the moderators. While all of us moderators seem to have some opinions about the mechanics and focus of this forum, I would like yours... Feel free to PM me or just post the answers to these questions:

1) Should an "Instructor's forum" be closed to all but those who are DM and higher? Should it be restricted to only instructors?

2) Should admission to that forum be in the form of a verifiable cert # and name? (WIll not be given out to the rest of the forum or board)

3) Should the right to assert that you ARE an instructor anywhere on the board be tied to that same verification?

4) Would there be any areas that should remain off-topic, even for such a forum.

I have my own answers to these questions, but will not elaborate until I hear from youse guys first.

You bring up very good points.
1) DM or higher
2) Yes, but who is going through the trouble of actually verifying.
3) Yes
4) Absolutely. There should be no agency or training organizations gloryfying or bashing. It should not be a ONE agency thing.

 

[wb416]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


I can handle that.

I'll list (in one liners as much as possible) some of the things we do that difer from the norm and others can add, comment or criticize as they see fit

I didn't do a very good job of writing in the "third-person" context. It wasn't my intent as a non-scuba instructor (although my work background and formal education is in adult training) to ask you to be the first on the chopping block (I don't think I have the right to ask that of you in the context of this forum).

However, I was trying to say, that in general, one of the difficulties that people have at the peer level is being open to, or making oneself potentially vulnerable to less than desirable criticism.

Thanks for being willing to expound though.

wb

 

[thethumper]

devilfish once bubbled...

You bring up very good points.
1) DM or higher
2) Yes, but who is going through the trouble of actually verifying.
3) Yes
4) Absolutely. There should be no agency or training organizations gloryfying or bashing. It should not be a ONE agency thing.

I have to agree w/devilfish. While I'm not an instructor, the more I can learn by reading, the more I can improve & direct other DM/Instructors to the forum. It would be nice to have 1 agency that agreed that safety & techniques/configuration was 1st & foremost. Not How much did we pull in this year?
The better divers produced, the better the sport. Not to mention if the sport doesn't "change", it doesn't move forward.

JM 2 cents.

I think us "lay people" should be allowed to view, but only respond in PM or a specific string dedicated to that forum.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I'm still thinking about NetDoc's questions.

In the pool (I'll try to keep this shorter. Just enough to start discussion.
Equipment
I always dive a bp/wing long hose and bungies backup. all staff uses the same hose config but some have back inflate bc's they use in the pool. Currently students are using an octo length primary and a bungied backup. I have some bp'wings and some back inflate bc's. Were in the process of swithcing over totally as funds allow.

From the beginning no staff member ever touches the bottom (except where standards dictate use of the bottom ). Even Shallow water skills are demonstrated neutral and horizantal. I don't insist students stay off the bottom in the beginning but they emulate us and before long everyone is off the bottom.

When we work on neutral swimming we get students balanced and develop a horizantal position. We don't dwell on a flutter kick but demonstrate and have them practice an array of finning techniques (frog, modified frog, modified flutter, turns and backing). We use a bc course and other exercises for practice.

When we hover we further refine balance and position as needed and hovering ris done horizantal.
We usually spend about 15 hours in the pool. other shops around us do 5 or 6.

team diving skills are stressed throughout

Open water
No real suprises except they have learned the process of getting weighted and trim that allow them to contribute to getting set up in OW (the addition of a heavy wet suit and more weight)

We don't leave the platform until everyone has things under control. The result is I don't have to chase students to the surface and pull them out of the mud. As long as other divers don't ruin it I can see my student because we don't blow the place out.

By the last dive (or before) students plan and conduct the tour portion of the dive as buddy teams. I follow and watch but if I am needed they aren't ready to be turned loose yet. If they seem unaware of each other A situation may arise that gives them cause for thought (with my help of course). Just little things to take advantage of the situation nothing real drastic.

The result is they hover motionless and horizontal at a safety stop (or elseware) watching other divers flounder in clouds of muck as they plow through the bottom.

One of the problems with all this is that I find I can't take in any DM or instructor off the street at least not until we clean up their technique.

 

[MikeFerrara]

NetDoc once bubbled...
and currently we are exploring this concept amongst the moderators. While all of us moderators seem to have some opinions about the mechanics and focus of this forum, I would like yours... Feel free to PM me or just post the answers to these questions:

1) Should an "Instructor's forum" be closed to all but those who are DM and higher? Should it be restricted to only instructors?

2) Should admission to that forum be in the form of a verifiable cert # and name? (WIll not be given out to the rest of the forum or board)

3) Should the right to assert that you ARE an instructor anywhere on the board be tied to that same verification?

4) Would there be any areas that should remain off-topic, even for such a forum.

I have my own answers to these questions, but will not elaborate until I hear from youse guys first.

1, I think all should be able to read. As long as it doesn't take things too far off topic posing is ok. Maybe non pro question and comment could go on another forum? just a thought

2, I don't know how easy that would be to impliment. Maybe the honor system.

3, Thinking on this. Anyone on the board may not be who or what they claim they are.

4, Off topic? I would hate for it to turn into a DIR vs non-DIR argument but I think the pros and cons of all methods and philosophies are worth exploring. as long as participants keep the discussion constructive have at it.

 

[mddolson]

NetDoc once bubbled... and currently we are exploring this concept amongst the moderators. While all of us moderators seem to have some opinions about the mechanics and focus of this forum, I would like yours... Feel free to PM me or just post the answers to these questions:

1) Should an "Instructor's forum" be closed to all but those who are DM and higher? Should it be restricted to only instructors?

2) Should admission to that forum be in the form of a verifiable cert # and name? (WIll not be given out to the rest of the forum or board)

3) Should the right to assert that you ARE an instructor anywhere on the board be tied to that same verification?

4) Would there be any areas that should remain off-topic, even for such a forum.

I have my own answers to these questions, but will not elaborate until I hear from youse guys first.
--------------------------------------------------
My reply :
1) AI's, Dm's or higher
2) Yes
3) Yes
4) There should be no agency bashing, name calling or insults.
However statment of fact and example or comparision of standards and techniques should be open for duscussion.

Mike Dolson
NAUI 4780
PADI 202288

 

[Walter]

mddolson,

"There should be no agency bashing, name calling or insults."

Agreed!

"However statment of fact and example or comparision of standards and techniques should be open for duscussion."

Big problem! Many folks see this as agency bashing.