Instructor Requirements- continued...

[MXGratefulDiver]

Then don't whine.

What makes you think I'm whining?

I simply stated an observation ... either the requirement isn't there, or it isn't being enforced.

Take it as you please ... since I'm not affiliated with PADI, there's nothing for me to whine about.

It's a simple enough question ... and there are many PADI instructors on here who can answer it.

Is there, or is there not, a 6-month experience requirement in order to become a PADI instructor?

And if so, how is it possible for this to be so easily cheated? Surely PADI can verify the certification records of its instructor candidates.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MikeFerrara]

Hi Mike.

So, I just have to go along with Opinion girl sorta. Except I have to let the consumer own a bit of the responsibility in this too, they are after all the ones who make the assembly line scuba schools possible right? I mean those schools are shady, and certainly can't love diving... clearly they love money BUT it's the guy who wants to dive for only 99 bucks that makes it happen. In the end you get what you pay for.

I absolutely agree. You can't sell something to some one who doesn't want it. The market for it is there and these schools and the agencies who back them are just telling people what they want to hear and giving them what they want. It's mostly a tourist thing and often the person who might like something else doesn't have a choice.

 

[Scubakevdm]

What makes you think I'm whining?

I simply stated an observation ... either the requirement isn't there, or it isn't being enforced.

Take it as you please ... since I'm not affiliated with PADI, there's nothing for me to whine about.

It's a simple enough question ... and there are many PADI instructors on here who can answer it.

Is there, or is there not, a 6-month experience requirement in order to become a PADI instructor?

And if so, how is it possible for this to be so easily cheated? Surely PADI can verify the certification records of its instructor candidates.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I think that one would be hard pressed to argue that this is a PADI specific problem unless you could prove that other agencies have something in place that prevents the same thing from happening. For PADI, a current teaching status course director must verify that the candidate has been diving for at least six months, and that they have logged at least 100 dives. That is the policy of the agency.
It is worth noting though that if you are a PADI instructor you generally don't have any problems at all crossing over to any of the other agencies, and so by default, any agency that accepts PADI instructor crossovers cart blanche, uses PADI instructor development.

 

[tndiveinstruct1]

I've been lurking in the background on this thread, since it really was originally meant for the dive professionals to stay out of it.

As a PADI instructor, I can say that it was a requirement that I be a certified diver for at least 6 months to attend my IDC. I don't know the person that went from OW to OWSI in 3 months, but perhaps the person had been certified before their PADI OW course, and decided to go thru the entire course again since it had been a long time ago. That was the case with me, but it still took me a few years to get to OWSI. My original certification was back in the late 70's, and I would dive every once in awhile when I was able to.

As far as "It's not my problem", well, it really is ALL our problem. We can all complain about this agency or that agency or this instructor or that course director or whatever else on this board, but does it REALLY help? I say it doesn't other than it makes some people feel good to get their feelings out in public. If no one complains about something, well then it really is "No News is Good News" as far as the agency is concerned. Rest assured that I would complain to ANY agency if I witnessed something that I thought was unsafe.

I now am going to return to my lurking status and studying for my Gas Blender course....

Randy Cain

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think that one would be hard pressed to argue that this is a PADI specific problem unless you could prove that other agencies have something in place that prevents the same thing from happening. For PADI, a current teaching status course director must verify that the candidate has been diving for at least six months, and that they have logged at least 100 dives. That is the policy of the agency.

Perhaps you're reading more into this than I wrote. I am not implying that it's a PADI-specific problem ... I'm not even saying it's a problem at all ... I'm simply pointing out that it isn't always the case, based on personal observation. Therefore I wanted clarification that it was, in fact, an agency requirement.

Thanks for answering the question ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Scubakevdm]

Perhaps you're reading more into this than I wrote. I am not implying that it's a PADI-specific problem ... I'm not even saying it's a problem at all ... I'm simply pointing out that it isn't always the case, based on personal observation. Therefore I wanted clarification that it was, in fact, an agency requirement.

Thanks for answering the question ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Oh.
Well... you're welcome!

 

[FatCat]

What makes you think I'm whining?

I simply stated an observation ... either the requirement isn't there, or it isn't being enforced.

Take it as you please ... since I'm not affiliated with PADI, there's nothing for me to whine about.

It's a simple enough question ... and there are many PADI instructors on here who can answer it.

Is there, or is there not, a 6-month experience requirement in order to become a PADI instructor?

And if so, how is it possible for this to be so easily cheated? Surely PADI can verify the certification records of its instructor candidates.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I'm sorry Bob, but citing problems with any agency is easy. Throwing around accusations and refusing to take action is whining in my book. But then again, my book is my book, not yours.

Yes there is a 6-month minimum. But, as others have stated while I was taking my beauty sleep, it's entirely possible that the person you mentioned had been certified by another agency before becoming an OWD.

Personally, I don't think that a CD would cheat on the requirements. Maybe I still have too much faith in humanity, I don't know.

All I know is that over the last year I've been attacked about PADI course standards and course requirements on a Belgian board against the backdrop of the new European dive norms (CEN 14153-*).

Now I'm not an advocate for PADI, nor am I a PADI employee. I'm just a simple OWSI.

However, if you examine the course material in detail and you know the theory behind it, you'll find that it is very comprehensive and well-presented.

But I digress again.

Diver0001,

I agree that there are some things in the course standards that are illogical to say the least. Not many, but there are some. And not everything that is conceived as a standards violation IS a standards violation.

But overloading the QA system? I don't think so. Quality managment is important, and if we as "pros" don't encourage the use of the system, then we're undermining our own credibility.

And I'm sick and tired of reading stuff along the lines of "once in idunnowhere I saw a **** instructor do idunnowhat".

 

[Diver0001]

....snip....

But overloading the QA system? I don't think so. Quality managment is important, and if we as "pros" don't encourage the use of the system, then we're undermining our own credibility.

I agree with you in principle. The QA system is there to be used and as pros we have a function in making it work.

But that's not what I'm talking about.

You said yourself that you're sick of seeing "once in idunnowhere I saw a **** instructor do idunnowhat" and you challenged Bob to report such a case. My point is that PADI (and you know this very well) doesn't react to reports based on hearsay or where no standards vilolations are made. Making a lot fo 20 min dives to get your numbers up in stupid but it's not a standards vilolation.

So, yes, encourage people to report things that the QA is intended to catch but don't encourage them to report things that only create background noise and load the system up with false alarms.

That's point 1. Point 2 is that direct intervention works best. Bob had a chance to directly confront the 6 month wonder about his/her behaviour but from the sounds of it he didn't (which surprises me because he seems like just the kind of guy who could do this very effectively....). Reporting such things to PADI in the unrealistic hope that it makes it through the system and that PADI confronts the student's instructor and the student's instructor sees fit to intervene even though there are no standards violations being made is (a) rediculously convoluted (b) ineffective in practice and (c) shifts responsibility for doing something away from the one person who could have made a difference.

In other words, escalating this without first trying to sort it out on the ground is a show of weakness and doesn't generally deliver a satisfactory result. That, in my opinion, is little better than moaning about it.

R..

 

[FatCat]

So, yes, encourage people to report things that the QA is intended to catch but don't encourage them to report things that only create background noise and load the system up with false alarms.

True. And maybe the agencies should publish the standards in a way that makes them accessible to the public. Still, a lot of comments are just that: background noise and false alarms.

Point 2 is that direct intervention works best. Bob had a chance to directly confront the 6 month wonder about his/her behaviour but from the sounds of it he didn't (which surprises me because he seems like just the kind of guy who could do this very effectively....). Reporting such things to PADI in the unrealistic hope that it makes it through the system and that PADI confronts the student's instructor and the student's instructor sees fit to intervene even though there are no standards violations being made is (a) rediculously convoluted (b) ineffective in practice and (c) shifts responsibility for doing something away from the one person who could have made a difference.

Yah. Though it must be said that direct intervention can sometimes cause bodily harm. :1poke:

So we're back to standards. Now you might argue that it's impossible to know all possible standards for all possible agencies, and you would be absolutely right. Still, when talking about RSTC affiliates, we all know the ANSI standards (or should know them). So when anyone of us witnesses a breach of those standards, why not report them? Or is it because a QA can have an impact on the person reporting a breach of standards?

Or is it that whenever someone witnesses "a breach of standards" they only see part of the picture?

Which is not to say that there are no standard violations, because unfortunately, there are.

 

[MikeFerrara]

It is worth noting though that if you are a PADI instructor you generally don't have any problems at all crossing over to any of the other agencies, and so by default, any agency that accepts PADI instructor crossovers cart blanche, uses PADI instructor development.

This isn't really true. Being a PADI instructor didn't gaain me much when I became an IANTD instructor.

Also, and it may have since changed but I checked into crossing over to the Y at one time and you had to start with taking their rescue class.