Inexperienced solo divers

[spectrum]

30 dives is not a lot but he is staying within reasonable bounds.

The rescue diver course may be even more appropriate than the solo course. It's great accident avoidance and may open his eyes to some stuff he's not considering.

Absolutely add a pony to be at ~50 feet! Exiting with 60 CF is a nice margin assuming nothing causes him to loose it, like a blown hose or O ring.

The friend that is being briefed probably can't so anything to help your friend other than arrange for a prompt recovery should things go bad.

It's his choice but I think some of my comments could help better stack the deck in his favor.

Pete

 

[aquaregia]

tell him to find a solo instructor and take the class he does not know what he does not know

So the class is worthwhile? Unfortunately, the SDI class requires 100 dives, which he doesn't have.

The Breakwater being one of them. Although last year someone diving solo died there too.

Do you have a link or something to that story? I try to read all the local A&I reports to keep myself careful.

 

[aquaregia]

The rescue diver course may be even more appropriate than the solo course. It's great accident avoidance and may open his eyes to some stuff he's not considering.

He took rescue already, but yeah, great suggestion thanks.

The friend that is being briefed probably can't so anything to help your friend other than arrange for a prompt recovery should things go bad.

I sort of wondered about that. I suppose there's some value to getting a recovery as quickly as possible.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Was that warm water or cold water for you? It really does make a difference. Especially since we are discussing a person who fears the kelp monster that is very real. I think it was last year someone got caught up and almost ran out of air. Being able to don and doff underwater could be the difference between life or death.

Our dive conditions out here are a lot different than diving in the tropics....

Hi Peter,

I'm guilty as charged :depressed: Point taken about very different dive conditions, and also different training now versus "then".

Ok, to be honest where I dive is not exactly what most picture as diving in the Hawaiian "tropics" : I dive from a a pretty unforgiving lava coastline, on the windward (rough) side of the island, with fairly strong surface currents, surge and wave action, lowish viz (compared to most everywhere else in Hawaii), water temp colder than you'd think.... But there is near-zero entanglement risk where I dive, and that is a really huge factor I often forget about for other locations.

My bad.

Anyway, if the dive conditions we are discussing are very low vis, cold water (cold enough that freeflows are quite likely), plus there is a real chance of serious entanglement, then solo is probably not something I'd personally choose or recommend. The risk level has climbed way too much for me.

But in this case I'm assuming that the conditions we are the exact conditions the diver trained in and is familiar with. If that is the case, I'd assume the diver can make a fairly informed decision about what the real risks are (solo or with a buddy) for that particular site.

If the site really is an easy, "safe" site, and he is familiar with it, then my opinion "stands". He should be able to do conservative, shallow, close-to-shore dives solo, and the risks should be manageable.

But again, local divers would be best able to comment.

Best wishes.

 

[Peter_C]

Do you have a link or something to that story? I try to read all the local A&I reports to keep myself careful.

I guess I lost a year.

This is the one I was thinking of which was in 2008 Salinas Diver died at Breakwater Maybe you should show this post to your buddy.

Here is a death from 1999 at BW Scuba Diver Dies After Breathing Problems

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/norcal/238173-salinas-diver-died-breakwater.html

 

[Akimbo]

Okay, so Akimbo's suggestion sounded like fun, and both my mate and I are engineers, so I figured I'd give it a whirl on my own. I had some trouble thinking of failures, so I thought I'd share what I came up with.

These I'd feel confident in my solution, based on past experiences
...

OMG! That is how the journey to the dark side begins!

The best scenarios to explore are those that scare the crap out of you late at night. Here are a few comments that may serve as food for thought and perhaps a little levity.

• Lost track of gas supply: How about swim up as soon as you feel increased resistance — you should breath down a tank to zip in a pool just to feel what it is like. Alternatively, do a free ascent. I am a firm believer in the value of practiced free ascents. Everyone intuitively thinks that it is as hard as swimming the same distance horizontally on one breath. It is hard to appreciate how easy expanding gas makes it — unless you plan on starting at 600'.
• Lost depth gauge/timer: How about go shallow enough not to care about it?
• Confused about dive plan: How can you be confused about your dive plan… not much room for miscommunication on a solo dive unless there is some serious multi-personality thing going on.
• Minor entanglement: Self rescue // Self rescue <<< Maybe practicing self rescue would be good for all new divers?
• Major entanglement: Buddy // How about remove rig, untangle, don rig, continue dive?
• Gas failure: See Lost track of gas supply
• Lost mask: How about open your eyes and swim up? Can't figure out where up is (darn unlikely)? Add a little air to BC. BC Broke? Drop weights
• Lost cutting device: Who cares, just reach down and untangle the problem.
• Panic: Don’t do that with our without a buddy. In fact it is better to panic solo so you don’t kill your buddy too.
• Valve off: Turn on valve // Turn on valve <<<< More dark side influence if I ever saw it!
• Hit by boat/kayak: If you were practicing good buddy procedures in the first place they would hit both of you more or less simultaneously.
• Narcosis: Buddy support // Avoid depth <<< What kind of solution is buddy support? Explain how you know that he/she is less narked than you? The solo solution is safer than the buddy solution!
• Accident during entry/exit: Buddy support // Avoid rocky, slippery or surf entries <<< If you think about it, consider how much risk you are putting your buddy in if you crack you gord open in crashing surf. How about exercise better judgment regardless?

 

[Akimbo]

...(Edit: Grrr, I spent a bunch of time spacing those out to be readable)

Click "Go Advanced" button to the right of "Post Quick Reply", Click "Preview Post" to test formatting.

 

[davidbaraff]

I think the answer to the question of is it reasonable is a firm "it depends."

Which is another way of saying that "yes, it's reasonable" at 30 dives is *one* possible answer, though others might disagree. It depends very much on the diver. An absolute "no, it can't be at 30 dives" is something I won't agree with.

I'm probably in a very similar situation to your friend. I did my O/W training at Monterey, and did a fair number of cold water dives there, after my O/W training, with the same instructor and group that gave me my initial training. I have a very great respect for this instructor, after observing what he taught relative to what (some) other instructor's didn't teach. I own all my equipment, I've used it and drilled with since O/W, maintain it, am very familiar with it.

I just checked my log book: on dive #17, at Monterey (Coral Street, if you know the area), my instructor said, "Why don't you go out by yourself?"

"But, but, but..." I spluttered. And thus I learned a little more about diving in the real world. The guy who taught me trusts my judgement to do this right, and I figured he ought to know better than me...

Now, I'd been diving in kelp since I started, the maximum depth I could find that day was all of 25', conditions were calm, etc. Was this a dangerous dive for a diver on dive #17? I don't feel it was for me. Likewise, I've done a few solo dives at the Breakwater itself, again, a spot I am quite familiar with.

I'm only at dive 80 or so, after two years, but when I dive solo, it's only under extremely friendly conditions (simple dive sites I already know, no navigation other than in and out, pretty much), calm conditions, and at least some other divers around the area (preferably someone on the shore who seems me go in and come out, if I can manage it). And I keep it shallow. Maybe I'll poke down to 40' or 50' for a minute or two, but by far most of the dive is around 30-40'. I'm air-integrated so I can easily observe how fast I'm going through gas, and getting too low (through lack of watching my PSI) is pretty remote.

My one change after about a year of this was to add redundant air. Since I don't need a safety stop if something goes wrong, all I need is enough to let me go to the surface nice and slowly. I *think* I could CESA from 40', but I am *positive* I'd rather have my Spare Air, even if it gives me all of 10 breaths, to go those 40'. (And whatever you may say about Spare Air, folks, from 40', it's a lot more than ten breaths. it's at least 20, which is a lot when all you need to do is get to the top. i've drilled with it in swimming pools, practicing deploying it.).

 

[aquaregia]

OMG! That is how the journey to the dark side begins!

Ah hah! Your true agenda revealed!

I'm going to respond to these as me, as I'm clearly not him

[*]Lost track of gas supply: How about swim up as soon as you feel increased resistance &#8212; you should breath down a tank to zip in a pool just to feel what it is like. Alternatively, do a free ascent. I am a firm believer in the value of practiced free ascents. Everyone intuitively thinks that it is as hard as swimming the same distance horizontally on one breath. It is hard to appreciate how easy expanding gas makes it &#8212; unless you plan on starting at 600'.

Because of the rate I've taken classes, I've actually done quite a few free ascents from 20' with a 30' horizontal leadup (I know that's psychologically different to a 50' ascent, but it's either that or a shovel). Plus my uni requires 75' horizontal breath-hold swims from us fairly regularly. His background is similar.

I'd discounted free ascents because I thought I read something from DAN about them being not-well connected to successful resolutions. I suppose a lot of 'controlled free ascents' might actually be 'bolted from 100 feet'.

[*]Lost depth gauge/timer: How about go shallow enough not to care about it?

Since Christian found the computer I lost at Monastery, I've got a backup.

[*]Confused about dive plan: How can you be confused about your dive plan&#8230; not much room for miscommunication on a solo dive unless there is some serious multi-personality thing going on.

Perhaps that I planned for 50' for 0:60 and once submerged misremembered as 60' for 0:50. Say if I originally planned to follow the pipe then went out to Metridiums as a B diver? And somehow had my gas last that long?

[*]Lost mask: How about open your eyes and swim up? Can't figure out where up is (darn unlikely)? Add a little air to BC. BC Broke? Drop weights

I was mostly concerned about ascent rate. I used to be able to read my analog depth gauge without a mask on, but I don't think I can do that in salt water with either of my digital gauges. Will experiment this weekend.

[*]Lost cutting device: Who cares, just reach down and untangle the problem.

You might be more skilled than I am. I've had to cut monofilament off myself even if it's just two or three loops because I can't physically grab it with my gloves on.

[*]Panic: Don&#8217;t do that with our without a buddy. In fact it is better to panic solo so you don&#8217;t kill your buddy too.

Well, from my perspective it's a draw

[*]Valve off: Turn on valve // Turn on valve <<<< More dark side influence if I ever saw it!

Actually this is one of my big fears because it's two potential effects (negative buoyancy and loss of air) compound each other significantly. Recently, I had this happen to a friend of mine in combination with a buddy separation on descent. She was unable to reach her valves but was a strong enough swimmer to be able to tread water with her rig until her buddy showed up again. Super scary. I usually don my rig with the air off and the hoses depressurized just to make sure that I can reach everything in case I need to.

[*]Narcosis: Buddy support // Avoid depth <<< What kind of solution is buddy support? Explain how you know that he/she is less narked than you? The solo solution is safer than the buddy solution!

Most of my diving is in 30-60' of water, with I think only five forays below 100'. I'm yet to experience narcosis, but I was under the impression it was pretty variable between people.

[*]Accident during entry/exit: Buddy support // Avoid rocky, slippery or surf entries <<< If you think about it, consider how much risk you are putting your buddy in if you crack you gord open in crashing surf. How about exercise better judgment regardless?

I'm not too concerned about surf as I bungee my secondary (and always enter/exit with it in, including at Breakwater), but I imagine that if I were to knock my skull on a rock and get knocked out, someone could drag me above the waterline. It seems that I might have trouble with that solo.

Thanks for the feedback! Anything I missed?

 

[Akimbo]

&#8230;Lost cutting device: Who cares, just reach down and untangle the problem.

&#8230;You might be more skilled than I am. I've had to cut monofilament off myself even if it's just two or three loops because I can't physically grab it with my gloves on. &#8230;

Skilled may miss the point. More patient and less reluctant to take entangled gear off in order to sort out a problem perhaps. I have no doubt you have the skill, but maybe not the subconscious comfort level with donning and doffing gear underwater... of course my being a geezer may simply favor patience. Hint: A glove can come off and fingers still work in 50° F water for quite a while. I would use a cutting edge first too, but not having one is just less convenient.

This all plays back to being confidant about a controlled and safe blow & go. It is rare that a single catastrophic problem kills you &#8212; which often nobody can do anything about anyway. Now that you have a list, start combining them and you will have a better picture of what you really need to be prepared for, solo or with a buddy. Look for combinations of three small things that get overlooked due as much from complacence as those likely to injure on their own.