Independent 3rd Party Testing (CE, USN, etc.)

[caveseeker7]

Now that we almost completely bastardized the Steammachines Prism thread I figured that it's about time to start an Independent 3rd Party Testing (CE, USN, etc.) thread. That way, if anybody is looking for it, they might actually find it.

So here comes the first question:
How long does CE testing & certification take?

Reason I'm asking is that APD keeps saying that they're in the certification stage with the Evolution ... ever since I asked about the rig (August 02).
Is testing that tedious, especially with a unit that was designed with certification in mind? Or did APD actually get the unit certified but has other problems.

And while we're at it:
How long does it take the NAVY to evaluate a rebreather?
I remember letters on the subject dating back years rather than months being posted on SMI's website ... ;-0

Does the NAVY test any unit at any time?
I remember seeing an ad in an industy magazine soliciting RB manufacturers to submit units for testing. There were specific requirements for size, weight, duration and operating mode. (Just the first two would have eliminated Inspirations, Megalodons, CCR2000s etc., the last one any SCR).

Hope y'all enjoy this
Stefan

 

[rmediver2002]

It does not take long to conduct the actual testing but...

It is fee based and can get expensive, anyone can have equipment tested and they often do. The Navy will evaluate the item and list the results, they will also identify any specifications not meeting the navy requirements.

* The add you mentioned was for a specific Navy specification (I think for a potential replacement for the Lar-V)

This can pretty much be refered to as phase one testing, next the companies will usually modify the unit to meet the specifications for the Authorized for Navy Use list if that was the original intent and return the unit (for an additional fee and retest) until it passes the Naval standard.

Kirby Morgan has a Lab in Panama City that will conduct independant testing of most items as well.

Jeff Lane

 

[KentCe]

What about UL testing? www.ul.com

They do test electronics (I assume a passive O2 sensor would count) and marine stuff.

Looking at hardware around the office, most have both UL and CE logos.

 

[caveseeker7]

Good to know that the Navy is available for testing.
yet that makes it even less understandable that not more companies have their products evaluated. Especially if they don't bother with CE, and in consideration of liability laws in the US ...

 

[gisido]

hi caveseeker.
i'm an italian life support manufacture and i read about your request on CE.
so, in the united europe EWERY LIFE SUPPORT SISTEM MUST BE CE APPROVED so, you must take it in an certification center and ask for approving.
test consit offor underwater rebreather)
breathing effort
o2 compatibility
software and hardware reliability
Ppo2 set point maintenace under stress situation and other.
so, a lot of american rebreather, if under CE don't pass the certificatio cause the require are wery hard(ex. breathing effort must be maximum 25 mbar in all position)( can a mark 15 do that????)
in the moment the only ce approved is Inspiration, but other come..
iin rebreather or parts or accessories please visit my website
www.gasconsulting.it
regards
and good dive!!!

 

[fins wake]

... then possibly at least, say, US Navy-testing could prove to be a back door into at least the British market for many rebreathers.

There has been quite a bit of debate on various British boards regarding the British Sub-Aqua Club (BSAC) and the use of non-certified rebreathers. I got the impression that there seems to be something of a BSAC concensus that if certain rebreathers were officially verified by the US Navy or Canada's Navy (or say, the DCIEM), they'd be allowed on club outings even if not strictly CE-approved ...

That would make quite a difference and if these rebreathers "took off" even further in the UK, perhaps this could make their manufacturers go for the CE in order to gain more of the market? =-)

 

[madmole]

Straight off the BSAC website
#######
What units are considered as approved by BSAC?
The Semi-closed Circuit Rebreather units currently accepted by the BSAC are;
Dräger Atlantis
Dräger Dolphin
Dräger Ray
San-o-Sub Italia Azimuth

The Closed Circuit Rebreather units currently accepted by the BSAC are;
Buddy Inspiration

These units are now approved for use in BSAC branch diving. Individuals should contact the Rebreather Working Group directly for approval of use of any other units in BSAC branch diving.

What modifications to a rebreather are considered acceptable to BSAC?
With the growing range of independently produced modifications for rebreathers and the different combinations in which they can be applied to rebreathers, it is impossible for the BSAC to evaluate all possibilities. The BSAC recognises however that some members will wish to adapt their rebreathers to suit the nature of their own particular diving. As with open circuit equipment the implications of any modifications should be carefully thought through, particularly where they have any impact at all on the breathing loop.
Before applying any modifications to their rebreathers, divers should understand that any modification extends the equipment beyond the CE approval of the manufacturer. Any subsequent modification is at the discretion of user who needs to satisfy them self that the modification is not detrimental to the performance of the equipment.

What is BSAC's recommendation regarding the purchase or diving of rebreathers outside the UK?
If someone dives outside the European Community (EC) or buys a personal non-CE unit outside the EC and brings it into Britain, in principle they are approved to dive it provided these rebreathers ..'are recognised and fully evaluated, and carry the CE marking or other governmental approval' in accordance with BSAC recommendations.
It is not against European law to buy a personal non-CE rebreather outside the EC and bring it into Britain provided the units are not being sold or used for paid work.

#######

Unfortunately, Navy Testing is not governmental approval. No country outside of Europe currently has an Government Approved rating for Civilian Rebreathers

 

[fins wake]

I've gone through the BSAC site again (including the threads where Mr Rowley expands on the issue) and Madmole is of course absolutely right. Although there is plenty of mention of national authorities, there is no specific mention of navies or the like ...

So, I guess if Steam Machines and Halcyon et al want a larger piece of the cake, they'll indeed have to go for the CE-certification ...

(Alternatively I suppose the US could enter some sort of reciprocal trading agreement with the EU specific to rebreathers only ... yeah, like that's going to happen ... ;-0 .)

 

[saturated]

I would PM Tigerscuba he worked for the lab for quite some time.