In Coz: You, Your Buddy, Your Group and Your DM. Who should do what?

[scubadada]

When you did the Devil's Throat were you AOW? Should any dive op take a diver on that dive that isn't AOW? Deep diver qualification is a requirement of AOW, a dive shop with a AOW diver at least knows the diver has passed those requirements has had training for the depth.

At least for PADI, you can be AOW with 9 training dives (4 OW and 5 AOW) and no additional experience. AOW requires 1 "deeper dive" of 60-100 feet, 1 navigation dive, and 3 other adventure dives. Deep diver requires 4 total dives (1 can be your dive from AOW) at depths of 60-130 feet. So.....you can be AOW with the Deep specialty with 12 training dives and no other dive experience, kind of frightening.

Judging a diver by training and experience, both number of dives and a description of where and under what conditions dived, is probably best. Of course, direct observation would also be invaluable.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

At least for PADI, you can be AOW with 9 training dives (4 OW and 5 AOW) and no additional experience. AOW requires 1 "deeper dive" of 60-100 feet, 1 navigation dive, and 3 other adventure dives. Deep diver requires 4 total dives (1 can be your dive from AOW) at depths of 60-130 feet. So.....you can be AOW with the Deep specialty with 12 training dives and no other dive experience, kind of frightening.

Judging a diver by training and experience, both number of dives and a description of where and under what conditions dived, is probably best. Of course, direct observation would also be invaluable.

What's frightening is that someone would think just because they had the training that they are qualified! I'm one of those that had deep certification within 12 dives, I realized during the deep training dives that I needed more experience before continuing to go deep. You have to know your limitations of what you can do, and what you're not ready for, it's called taking personal responsibility. How many ops actually look at your log book and or computer to see what experience you've had??

 

[scubadada]

What's scary is that someone would think just because they had the training that they are qualified! I'm one of those that had deep certification within 12 dives, I realized during the deep training dives that I needed more experience before continuing to go deep. You have to know your limitations of what you can do, and what you're not ready for, it's called taking personal responsibility. How many ops actually look at your log book and or computer to see what experience you had??

Personal responsibility is good thing but it's probably similar to common sense, far too rare.

Many operators screen by level of certification, number of dives, and date of last dive. Some even ask a few questions regarding conditions similar to those to be dived, not a bad start.

 

[Sorrows]

I was thinking the same thing, since I've never been to Coz, but I do plan on going one day, from most of these post you would think you didn't have a choice of which Op to dive with, or they are all the same. It's always up to the individual to take responsibility for their safety, send emails, ask questions, if you don't like the response move to the next op. And if you do like the response, ask those questions again before going out with them. If you like to dive shallow, make sure they are going out on shallow dive.

Since this particular dive was booked through a cruise ship, I would ask if she DID have a choice? Perhaps someone who has actually booked a dive excursion through a cruise ship could weigh in here? Yes, I understand that she could have booked her own dive op, as many do, but the truth is, most cruise ship passengers just go along with whatever the cruise ship people recommend.

Obviously, one should do his homework--get recommendations, etc. but you don't always get your own way, so unless you are willing to make a scene as the boat is pulling out, what to do? During our week at SCC, we were placed on a bigger boat with an established dive group. They wanted to go to Santa Rosa; we didn't, particularly, and neither did our DM, but we went along with them as it was their last day. And they were the bigger group! Tell me that has never happened to you?

 

[Laurie S.]

I've done four diving excursions through the ship and on each one the dive locations were preselected. There was no option to suggest anything else. So, I believe the plan was to go to Santa Rosa Wall regardless of the divers who signed up. And, on all four excursions, only cruise ship passengers were present.

 

[mstevens]

What's wrong with padi?

Nothing. It's just that since I am neither a citizen nor a resident of PADI I am not subject to its laws.

Another way of putting this is that referring to PADI recommendations as if they were some sort of hard and fast rule is not realistic.

and as far as the smb, isn't this another one of those skills that you should practice in shallow, or in a pool??

Theoretically, perhaps. In reality, you can't practice shooting a bag, ascending to 15 feet, then holding a stop in a pool. You can't practice dealing with 80 feet of line stretching ahead of you on a diagonal in a shallow area.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

Since this particular dive was booked through a cruise ship, I would ask if she DID have a choice? Perhaps someone who has actually booked a dive excursion through a cruise ship could weigh in here? Yes, I understand that she could have booked her own dive op, as many do, but the truth is, most cruise ship passengers just go along with whatever the cruise ship people recommend.

Obviously, one should do his homework--get recommendations, etc. but you don't always get your own way, so unless you are willing to make a scene as the boat is pulling out, what to do? During our week at SCC, we were placed on a bigger boat with an established dive group. They wanted to go to Santa Rosa; we didn't, particularly, and neither did our DM, but we went along with them as it was their last day. And they were the bigger group! Tell me that has never happened to you?

I've never done a cruise, so I can't speak on that, but if I ever do one I will make my on plans as I do with all my dives. I've only been diving a year, with 27 dives under my belt. From my certification dives until my most recent dive, so I'm by far not an experienced diver, but I've always chosen the op, and if I don't feel comfortable with a site, I always have the choice to say NO and deal with the op when I get back to shore, I don't have to make a scene to do that! So to answer your question, you always have a choice, she may not have had a choice of which op, but she did have a choice on whether or not to get off the boat and you also had the same choice. It goes back to what parents used to say, "if everyone jumps off a cliff, are you going too?" I don't like getting recommendations, because everyone doesn't like the same things. I just do the research, make a few choices if I go out with my first choice and I don't like it, then tomorrow it's the second choice.

Has that ever happened to me, no, because most of the time I'm on with new divers who want to go shallow, and we don't really know the sites so we go where ever the boats going. My last dive we had 3 to 4 ft surges, the first dive, 13 went in, the second dive half stayed on the boat, they had a choice. Didn't bother me because I did my OW and AOW in 7 to 8 ft surges.

If you're on a cruise ship and you want them to make all the plans for you, (which is why most people take a cruise), then you take what they give you. It was your choice to let them do it.

---------- Post added April 6th, 2012 at 03:59 PM ----------

Nothing. It's just that since I am neither a citizen nor a resident of PADI I am not subject to its laws.

Another way of putting this is that referring PADI recommendations as if they were some sort of hard and fast rule is not realistic.



Theoretically, perhaps. In reality, you can't practice shooting a bag, ascending to 15 feet, then holding a stop in a pool. You can't practice dealing with 80 feet of line stretching ahead of you on a diagonal in a shallow area.

okay I understand the PADI reference, I guess some don't realize they are only recommendations.

As far as the SMB when is do you send it up, at your safety stop or when you start your ascent? I'm new, and never used one, but plan to start trying to get a practice with it.

 

[boulderjohn]

That is kind of an annoying stat.

When I die if the C/O/D is "drowning", someone had better start investigating.

Drowning might be caused by a medical problem, or stupidity on my part, being run over by a boat, or maybe even a tank full of something nasty, but I can guarantee that "drowning" isn't a sufficient explanation.

DAN has talked about this problem many times. In the vast majority of cases, the cause of death is simply listed as drowning. In many of those cases, it is impossible for anyone to tell what led to the drowning. IN other cases, no real investigation was done. It is therefore a large category on its own because that is all they really know.

Even "heart attack" isn't a good enough explanation. What caused it? Panic? Overexertion? If it didn't happen sitting on the dock, why did it happen in the water?

Most heart attacks happen while the victim is sleeping. Many people die of cardiac events while playing golf. Cardiac events do not have to be caused by anything other than the underlying heart disease that weakened the heart. When the heart goes on its own, you have to be doing something, if only sitting back watching TV.

Sometimes you are diving.

 

[boulderjohn]

In reality, you can't practice shooting a bag, ascending to 15 feet, then holding a stop in a pool.

I'll try to remember that the next time I do it. I don't ascend to 15 feet, obviously, but I usually practice at least one stop on ascent after shooting a bag in a pool. Holding stops at 9 and 6 feet is better practice than 15 feet.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

I've done four diving excursions through the ship and on each one the dive locations were preselected. There was no option to suggest anything else. So, I believe the plan was to go to Santa Rosa Wall regardless of the divers who signed up. And, on all four excursions, only cruise ship passengers were present.

Have you done any on your own? If so which one better suited you?