In Coz: You, Your Buddy, Your Group and Your DM. Who should do what?

[paulw]

I can dive most Cozumel dive sites and ascend solo and not HAVE to have a safety sausage/SMB. I would have to maintain vigilance for arriving boats (required even with a SMB). I would be less visible to be picked up. But those are workable FOR ME.

Add to that the stress that trying to use a SMB could be for an inexperienced diver and its use could make matters worse.

I respectfully disagree, I would not like to ascend without a SMB in Cozumel or any other boat diving location, even if you do not shoot the bag from depth having one inflated while on the surface is very comforting to both the diver and the boat Captain. I have had surface currents carry me quite a ways and it was really nice to be seen. I have surfaced without one in Cozumel but only because I could see the boat directly over us the entire safety stop. I do not recommend surfacing in any boat lane anywhere, ocean or lake without a SMB but that is JMHO.

 

[Ron Lee]

I would expect to be able to call any boat in the area and give them the name of my dive-boat and GPS location, and use the beacon if on a night dive.

My original post should have also caveated use of these type devices with the condition which may justify their use. If I am alone on the surface at Palancar Gardens, I am not likely to activate a PLB. There are normally plenty of boats around. A Nautilus may be used if the pickup time by any boat becomes excessive (not defined).

You need to understand their capabilities and limitations and use them appropriately.

 

[Sorrows]

You know, I have a great deal of sympathy for the DMs in this regard. And especially when they know they will likely never see these divers again and thus build a rapport with them. Hence they do all they can in the moment to please the divers on the boat to maximize tips. As has been said many many times, new divers don't know what they don't know and so probably wouldn't think to ask the depth, difficulty etc. And once at the site, don't want to rock the boat. So you may well be right that day-trippers change the landscape entirely. Something I had not given a lot of thought to until now. BTW, after hundreds of dives in Coz I am NEVER bored on even the easiest of dives. I can always find something to entertain myself on any dive (even my less favourite sites) and never clamour for a particular site or roll my eyes at the choice of the group on the boat. I can be perfectly happy mucking around in 30 feet of water with no current but the DM and group had best be prepared for a long dive! Most experienced divers I have encountered feel the same way. I don't think it is the experienced divers one needs to be concerned about annoying.

I agree with you 100%, MMM, but then I'm somebody who basically just wants to look at pretty fish and weird creatures. However, I've certainly been on boats--particularly in Cozumel--with guys who want to do the more "exciting" dives; deep walls, tunnels and chutes, etc and were pretty insistent about it (particularly if they are in a group) DMs usually reluctantly agree because, as you say, they want to please their customers and they don't want to endanger their tips. When we were in Palau last year, there was a young woman who had just got certified the day before; but there was a group on the boat who desperately wanted to go back to Blue Corner, and so we went. At least she had several people keeping a watchful eye on her. Still, that's just wrong.

That's why I much prefer dedicated dive resorts where you get on the same boat with the same people and the same DM--but those are Saturday-to-Saturday and in Cozumel there is a constant stream of changing faces. I'm just glad we got to have the same DM during our week in Coz last month.

It does seem that they need to come up with a better way to separate divers by experience and comfort level. I can't buy into the idea that new divers should have to hire their own DM--I have to think that most new divers would feel perfectly comfortable mucking around in that dive site you describe--40 feet of water and no current.

 

[Firefyter]

BTW, after hundreds of dives in Coz I am NEVER bored on even the easiest of dives. I can always find something to entertain myself on any dive (even my less favourite sites) and never clamour for a particular site or roll my eyes at the choice of the group on the boat. I can be perfectly happy mucking around in 30 feet of water with no current but the DM and group had best be prepared for a long dive! Most experienced divers I have encountered feel the same way. I don't think it is the experienced divers one needs to be concerned about annoying.

Agree 100%. I have 650+ dives, with ~250 being in Cozumel waters. I have been on every reef that I know of from Maracaibo to Barracuda several times. My personal favorite is consistently Columbia Shallows. Long dives, low-no current, great lighting, lots to see. I never complain about where we're going, either, but I'm perfectly happy doing the easier ones.

 

[Sorrows]

In a DAN diver fatality survey 26 percent were classified as normal weight, and 74 percent were overweight or obese. Forty-five percent were obese or morbidly obese, representing a higher proportion than in national surveys.

Yikes! Thanks for posting this, Mike.

I remember reading a study some time ago (published here? Undercurrent? Diver Alert?) which separated diver fatalities by gender. The women tended to die as a result of panic and poor response to an out-of-the-ordinary situation; the men tended to die as a result of overestimating their abilities or underestimating the inherent danger of a particular situation (caves! wreck penetration!)

I have the greatest respect for science and the scientific method, but my initial reaction to this report was "duh." It didn't seem like you needed a Ph.D. to come up with that conclusion--women are more nervous and men are more stupid. Of course, the whole thing is so lopsided as there are so many more men diving than women.

As for the physical shape and weight of divers--the problem is so much of the diving we do is pretty easy. You float/drift along with these powerful fins and the hardest part is often getting back on the boat or on shore. And then the unexpected happens...

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

My original post should have also caveated use of these type devices with the condition which may justify their use. If I am alone on the surface at Palancar Gardens, I am not likely to activate a PLB. There are normally plenty of boats around. A Nautilus may be used if the pickup time by any boat becomes excessive (not defined).

You need to understand their capabilities and limitations and use them appropriately.

I agree, but once again this depends on the individual, I would not see a need to use it if I came up and didn't see the op I was with, but there are other boats around and one of them had acknowledged that they see me.

 

[diverrex]

I agree with you 100%, MMM, but then I'm somebody who basically just wants to look at pretty fish and weird creatures. However, I've certainly been on boats--particularly in Cozumel--with guys who want to do the more "exciting" dives; deep walls, tunnels and chutes, etc and were pretty insistent about it (particularly if they are in a group) DMs usually reluctantly agree because, as you say, they want to please their customers and they don't want to endanger their tips. When we were in Palau last year, there was a young woman who had just got certified the day before; but there was a group on the boat who desperately wanted to go back to Blue Corner, and so we went. At least she had several people keeping a watchful eye on her. Still, that's just wrong.

That's why I much prefer dedicated dive resorts where you get on the same boat with the same people and the same DM--but those are Saturday-to-Saturday and in Cozumel there is a constant stream of changing faces. I'm just glad we got to have the same DM during our week in Coz last month.

It does seem that they need to come up with a better way to separate divers by experience and comfort level. I can't buy into the idea that new divers should have to hire their own DM--I have to think that most new divers would feel perfectly comfortable mucking around in that dive site you describe--40 feet of water and no current.

Individual divers have a responsibility to understand the diving activity. Not all diving is the same just as there is a degree in difficulty in ski runs, rock climbing etc. The diver should be responsible to know that and deal with it appropriately. You can't just pick any dive op and schedule a dive. You have to ask questions and make sure your level of skill matches the dives that op makes. Many ops have mutiple boats and will put less experienced divers together and take them to easier shallower sites. Some ops only have one boat and cater to more experienced divers, a newer diver should not select that op. I tend to use ops now that take me to sites I didn't go to when I was newer. I've never had a problem finding out ahead of time whether an op was appropriate for my skill level. Most ops take it upon themselves to make sure their divers are appropriate, some do not.

 

[gypsyjim]

I don't see how that changes the fact that being healthy is better than being obese.

.

I do not see where I said that it was not. I was merely observing that if any activity trends toward any particular demographic, in this case somewhat older citizens, then statistics for incidents within this group might naturally reflect charactoristics of that demographic, even if they were not a factor. Statistics can be a very blunt instrument for measuring things unless you consider other factors besides just the stats.

That's why I much prefer dedicated dive resorts where you get on the same boat with the same people and the same DM--but those are Saturday-to-Saturday and in Cozumel there is a constant stream of changing faces. I'm just glad we got to have the same DM during our week in Coz last month.

It does seem that they need to come up with a better way to separate divers by experience and comfort level. I can't buy into the idea that new divers should have to hire their own DM--I have to think that most new divers would feel perfectly comfortable mucking around in that dive site you describe--40 feet of water and no current.

A few weeks ago I was speaking with ScubaBoard's Cardzard, who is organizing the ScubaBaord Invades Coz, later this year.

You might be happy to know he says that they are trying to set up differing dive boats for specific groups, based somewhat that way. Divers on last years Invasion were grouped by experience level, interest, and those groups dove together and with the same crew each day. He says they will be using this same method of establishing groups of divers this year.

I am not a part of this trip, but it sure sounds like a great way for relatively new divers to experience Coz, on boats dedicated to their level of experience! Sounds like he is organizing an awfully good trip for the general SB membership!


http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/invade-cozumel-2012/396102-invade-cozumel-2012-package-deal.html

again, I have no part of this trip, but am passing the info along as it may benefit those reading this thread.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

Individual divers have a responsibility to understand the diving activity. Not all diving is the same just as there is a degree in difficulty in ski runs, rock climbing etc. The diver should be responsible to know that and deal with it appropriately. You can't just pick any dive op and schedule a dive. You have to ask questions and make sure your level of skill matches the dives that op makes. Many ops have mutiple boats and will put less experienced divers together and take them to easier shallower sites. Some ops only have one boat and cater to more experienced divers, a newer diver should not select that op. I tend to use ops now that take me to sites I didn't go to when I was newer. I've never had a problem finding out ahead of time whether an op was appropriate for my skill level. Most ops take it upon themselves to make sure their divers are appropriate, some do not.

I was thinking the same thing, since I've never been to Coz, but I do plan on going one day, from nost of these post you would think you didn't have a choice of which Op to dive with, or they are all the same. It's always up to the individual to take responsibility for their safety, send emails, ask questions, if you don't like the response move to the next op. And if you do like the response, ask those questions again before going out with them. If you like to dive shallow, make sure they are going out on shallow dive.

 

[flots am]

How is "drowning" listed as a cause of death in 33%. What caused the person who is a good swimmer and has air to drown? That's not a very helpful stat and it is so large that it makes all the others less meaningful too. E.g. If 29% of fatalities are due to embolae mightn't that mean that 10 of the 33% drownings were caused by embolae too? Drowning, by itself, is not a meaningful entry.

That is kind of an annoying stat.

When I die if the C/O/D is "drowning", someone had better start investigating.

Drowning might be caused by a medical problem, or stupidity on my part, being run over by a boat, or maybe even a tank full of something nasty, but I can guarantee that "drowning" isn't a sufficient explanation.

Even "heart attack" isn't a good enough explanation. What caused it? Panic? Overexertion? If it didn't happen sitting on the dock, why did it happen in the water?

flots.