In Coz: You, Your Buddy, Your Group and Your DM. Who should do what?

[mstevens]

In a DAN diver fatality survey 26 percent were classified as normal weight, and 74 percent were overweight or obese. Forty-five percent were obese or morbidly obese, representing a higher proportion than in national surveys.

I doubt this is significantly different from non-diving deaths for two reasons:

1) Demographics indicate that a significant percentage of the population is overweight. Thus, a significant percentage of those who die from any cause (or are in non-fatal car crashes, are pooped on by birds, etc.) will fall in the same group.

2) Numerous studies indicated that overweight increases the risk of all-cause mortality. Thus, the overweight are disproportionately at risk of dying while diving, but they're also at disproportionately high risk of having a fatal cardiac event while washing the car or playing pool.

I can't tell what "representing a higher proportion than in national surveys" means. Nobody surveys dead people, so it's unclear what a "fatality survey" is. It's possible that they're saying that there's an increased mortality risk among overweight divers compared to both overweight non-divers and non-overweight divers. They didn't say that, though.

Correlation is not the same thing as causation. This data does not necessarily mean that overweight people should not dive. It probably does mean that people should not be overweight (but we already knew that).

 

[Splitlip]

Does anyone know if PADI includes instruction in the use of a DSMB for their Deep Dive specialty? One of the local PADI shops does. they also introduce it to their AOW students.

 

[flots am]

Since this particular dive was booked through a cruise ship, I would ask if she DID have a choice? Perhaps someone who has actually booked a dive excursion through a cruise ship could weigh in here? Yes, I understand that she could have booked her own dive op, as many do, but the truth is, most cruise ship passengers just go along with whatever the cruise ship people recommend.

The ships I've been on only require that you show a c-card and have had "A dive" within the past X months. One wanted two months and another wanted 12.

There is no mention of "advanced" anything and they generally don't specify the dive site, and say it's up to the operator to select.

The only time I've seen a site specified was a "Destination dive", like if you signed up to dive the Rhone.

flots.

 

[mstevens]

after hundreds of dives in Coz I am NEVER bored on even the easiest of dives. I can always find something to entertain myself on any dive (even my less favourite sites) and never clamour for a particular site or roll my eyes at the choice of the group on the boat. I can be perfectly happy mucking around in 30 feet of water with no current but the DM and group had best be prepared for a long dive! Most experienced divers I have encountered feel the same way. I don't think it is the experienced divers one needs to be concerned about annoying.

What she said.

---------- Post added April 6th, 2012 at 04:41 PM ----------

How is "drowning" listed as a cause of death in 33%. What caused the person who is a good swimmer and has air to drown? That's not a very helpful stat and it is so large that it makes all the others less meaningful too. E.g. If 29% of fatalities are due to embolae mightn't that mean that 10 of the 33% drownings were caused by embolae too? Drowning, by itself, is not a meaningful entry.

Yes, drowning is meaningful. It is a cause of death. Running out of air is not a cause of death, nor is diving at an inappropriate site, etc.

We can get into mechanisms of drowning (people drown in ankle-deep water while conscious sometimes, so it's not always about not having access to air) but it's a perfectly reasonable cause of death. Drowning does not mean "died underwater".

---------- Post added April 6th, 2012 at 04:44 PM ----------

being healthy is better than being obese.

It's a logical fallacy to think of "healthy" and "obese" as either opposites or mutually exclusive. There are, literally, millions of non-obese unhealthy people. There are lots of people with excessive BMI who are considerably healthier than many people at "ideal body weight".

---------- Post added April 6th, 2012 at 04:49 PM ----------

I'll try to remember that the next time I do it. I don't ascend to 15 feet, obviously, but I usually practice at least one stop on ascent after shooting a bag in a pool. Holding stops at 9 and 6 feet is better practice than 15 feet.

How deep is your pool? There are pools deep enough to allow you to ascend to 15 feet, but not many.

 

[diverrex]

Since this particular dive was booked through a cruise ship, I would ask if she DID have a choice? Perhaps someone who has actually booked a dive excursion through a cruise ship could weigh in here? Yes, I understand that she could have booked her own dive op, as many do, but the truth is, most cruise ship passengers just go along with whatever the cruise ship people recommend.

Obviously, one should do his homework--get recommendations, etc. but you don't always get your own way, so unless you are willing to make a scene as the boat is pulling out, what to do? During our week at SCC, we were placed on a bigger boat with an established dive group. They wanted to go to Santa Rosa; we didn't, particularly, and neither did our DM, but we went along with them as it was their last day. And they were the bigger group! Tell me that has never happened to you?

I was diving Key Largo once on a trip scheduled for the shallows. We headed out there and found the viz to be really bad. The captain radioed around and found that the conditions on the Speigel Grove were great and said we would go there if all agreed. Everyone wanted to go except one diver spoke up and said he didn't think he was experienced enough for the Speigel Grove. We went to another shallow location instead. I'd have rather dived the SG but I understood why we didn't.

 

[Mossman]

I was diving Key Largo once on a trip scheduled for the shallows. We headed out there and found the viz to be really bad. The captain radioed around and found that the conditions on the Speigel Grove were great and said we would go there if all agreed. Everyone wanted to go except one diver spoke up and said he didn't think he was experienced enough for the Speigel Grove. We went to another shallow location instead. I'd have rather dived the SG but I understood why we didn't.

Hmmm. I'm surprised that holdout diver didn't "accidentally" get locked in the head :0

 

[boulderjohn]

How deep is your pool? There are pools deep enough to allow you to ascend to 15 feet, but not many.

I use several pools, with the deep ends generally around 12 feet. Whenever I am practicing my skills, I will usually shoot at least f bags--two lift bags and two SMBs. I will use both reels and spools for this, and a couple different inflation techniques. After each one is shot, I will ascend part way up and hold a stop. sometimes I will hold two stops on the way. I do this is horizontal trim so that I have plenty of room for it.

 

[Laurie S.]

Have you done any on your own? If so which one better suited you?

Yes, the majority of my diving has been with private operators. The first two ship's dives I did were right after I was certified, and since I was traveling alone, felt safer with the ship's excursion. I actually lucked out on the first one and had an excellent DM at Costa Maya. The other two were due to time constrictions, so it was safer to use the ship's operators. The first one in Belize was great, the second one, in Grand Turk, was awful. I much prefer private operators and have used them in at least 10 ports so far. Other than in August, I won't be cruising anymore. We've identified the locations we like and will be flying in for a couple of weeks to dive at each instead (e.g., Costa Maya, Bonaire, Samana).

 

[Mike]

It's a logical fallacy to think of "healthy" and "obese" as either opposites or mutually exclusive. There are, literally, millions of non-obese unhealthy people. There are lots of people with excessive BMI who are considerably healthier than many people at "ideal body weight".

Sure, but you knew what I meant, now didnaya?

 

[cvchief]

Most heart attacks happen while the victim is sleeping.

Well, thanks for that. Now when my head hits the pillow I will be thinking of you.... :shocked2:

Many people die of cardiac events while playing golf.

Does it go up with your score? I could be in serious trouble.

.....if only sitting back watching TV..... Sometimes you are diving.

Please don't bring up the tequila......