"I'm so conservative..."

[MaxBottomtime]

I have a friend who dives nitrox but sets her computer to air so she can be more conservative. She then makes rapid ascents, rarely makes a safety stop but insists she does. I told her if she had an accident the people at the chamber would want to look at her computer profile and wouldn't get an accurate profile because she was diving a gas other than what the computer was set to. I asked her why she wouldn't want to just know the profile for the actual mix but she is convinced that what she is doing is safer.

 

[dmaziuk]

Ignorance is solved by education. But you can't fix stupid.

Can't educate 'em either.

 

[boulderjohn]

He appears to have planned his gas on the basis of direct ascent to surface (@boulderjohn can confirm this?) and not having a "SHTF" contingency.

That is correct. He knew what he was doing. He planned to do deco with no redundant gas.

If this is the current climate of training where the information is that sparse and what is being taught is just to follow your computer because it does a lot better job than you can, then at least do some thorough teaching about all the computers and everything they can do.

The old courses taught close to nothing about computers. The current computer courses, at least PADI's, go over this issue in detail and tell you what you are supposed to do.

 

[TMHeimer]

I would hate to give up good gear just so guides do not assure you are experienced. Maybe embroider the shoulder straps with “Newbie”, or get sleeves to put over them? Or 'Beginner", but that is longer. Or maybe "Vacation Diver" sewn down each shoulder strap, maybe the left red and the right green for a nautical theme. I think most would view that as self aware. And it might be a service to other beginning divers, that your type of gear is an option. It might be a more comfortable conversation piece. I used white duck tape and a marker to write “Is it wise?” on my backplate as a note to myself. Maybe something similar.

Sew on Master Scuba Diver then every diver will know you are top notch.

 

[Landau]

I wish PADI had much more on using computers and less on the tables and the glorified pocket calculator. Has anyone ever seen a diver outside of a training course using an eRDPml?

The price of an entry level computer is about the same as a watch or other timer that is really waterproof to 40 meters. Certainly the entry level computer is cheaper than good watch + Depth gauge + eRDPml.

The hard bit would be covering the displays on all the different computers out there.

 

[Kevrumbo]

In the terminology commonly used with gradient factors, the word "conservative" means a lower first gradient factor. I believe it is a misapplication of the term, and people will use their understanding of that word as a substitute for learning what it actually means to make a good choice of gradient factors.

No John . . .that IS a proper application of the term "conservative" and a lower first gradient factor (GF Lo). Relative to the Fast Tissues, you are stopping much deeper -more conservative- just as those fast tissues are beginning to desaturate; and not as supersaturated -more liberal- than if you stopped at a depth shallower and closer to the fast tissues' M-Value. So if you believe in protecting those fast tissues from bubbling in a supersaturated state, you would then be more conservative and perform a deeper stop (lower GF Lo).

Now there are dynamic decompression implications with regard to the Slow & Intermediate Tissues and the NEDU Deep Stops Study that should be covered in advanced technical courses, but for purposes of this sub-forum being Basic Scuba Discussions, the semantic and qualitative usage of the term "conservative" relative to lower GF numbers is correct. . .

 

[Thrawn7]

I have a friend who dives nitrox but sets her computer to air so she can be more conservative

This is one of the methods taught by SSI Nitrox course. Diving with Nitrox on DC Air settings is considered more conservative. You just need to watch out for MOD since the DC won't be aware of it.

 

[Cowfish Aesthetic]

I have a friend who dives nitrox but sets her computer to air so she can be more conservative. She then makes rapid ascents, rarely makes a safety stop but insists she does. I told her if she had an accident the people at the chamber would want to look at her computer profile and wouldn't get an accurate profile because she was diving a gas other than what the computer was set to. I asked her why she wouldn't want to just know the profile for the actual mix but she is convinced that what she is doing is safer.

This is one of the methods taught by SSI Nitrox course. Diving with Nitrox on DC Air settings is considered more conservative. You just need to watch out for MOD since the DC won't be aware of it.

I believe I recall PADI mentioning this as well, and I guess it is the modern equivalent of diving nitrox on air tables. Rapid ascents and omitted safety stops are an entirely different issue.

 

[shawnhar]

I partly blame the tool, but I also blame the current computer culture, and I also blame the training, and lastly the internet culture associated with the bombardment of random information of all different styles and levels of diving from beginner all the way up to extremely advanced technical diving, and It’s all thrown into the same soup.

From my perspective as a newly certified PADI OW diver (currently 7 dives in), I can't really agree with this.

I've found the internet (especially this site) to be an invaluable resource for deepening my understanding of diving and filling the holes my training did not cover. There's a lot of information to be sure, but I have never felt bombarded by it, and have been very impressed by how well scuba culture keeps the requirements for different types of diving separated. Other sporting/outdoorsy cultures that I am familiar with are MUCH worse at this. For instance, when other hikers learn that I enjoy the Pacific Northwest there is a high probability I'll get a comment along the lines of "oh, you should climb Mount Rainier sometime then" - with zero understanding of how that differs from day hiking on a maintained trail.

I think the scuba world is remarkably consistent at deglamorizing the pushing of limits, emphasizing the need for proper training and equipment, clearly separating the more advanced from beginner types of diving, and calling out the inevitable people who ignore these principles. For instance, I really appreciate how technical diving is presented, not as "kinda similar to recreational diving but deeper/longer/more badass", but rather as an entirely separate discipline with a different name, different training, different equipment... The same divers may participate in both, but the lines are far less blurred than I'm used to in other fields such as climbing or sailing. Well done y'all!

That said, my training certainly did not prepare me to use a computer in a sensible way. I was taught how to use dive tables, then finished up with a brief comment along the lines of "of course in practice you will never use this - computers are much easier and safer so you should get one of those instead". Big hole there for sure, as having a computer and looking at it every now and then is not particularly useful if you don't know what to do with the information it gives you, or how to plan dives using it. Thank you scubaboard for helping me (start to) figure that out.

 

[rsingler]

No John . . .that IS a proper application of the term "conservative" and a lower first gradient factor (GF Lo).

Are we really going to do this again? On the Basic Forum?