iantd advanced nitrox vs. tdi advanced nitrox

[DeepScuba]

OK, O-ring, if truth be told, I'm 80% DIR, probably more, but I don't wanna give myself too much.......... Errrrrrr...... Credit

TDI has no "Max Deco" time limit, and you're covered for use up to 100% O2

The Intro and "Full" Trimix course do bug me though. At this point, it's all been covered, so there should be just 1 Trimix course (for TDI). I think it's a play for just one more course..Shame shame.......... TDI and because of that, after Intro to Trimix (Or whatever it's called, I can't remember right now), I not going to do the "Advanced" for the sake of another card and a few more "official" feet of depth.

Yeah right. At this point, it's just all about more diving, as the thoery has been learned already.

 

[padiscubapro]

DeepScuba once bubbled...
OK, O-ring, if truth be told, I'm 80% DIR, probably more, but I don't wanna give myself too much.......... Errrrrrr...... Credit

TDI has no "Max Deco" time limit, and you're covered for use up to 100% O2

The Intro and "Full" Trimix course do bug me though. At this point, it's all been covered, so there should be just 1 Trimix course (for TDI). I think it's a play for just one more course..Shame shame.......... TDI and because of that, after Intro to Trimix (Or whatever it's called, I can't remember right now), I not going to do the "Advanced" for the sake of another card and a few more "official" feet of depth.

Yeah right. At this point, it's just all about more diving, as the thoery has been learned already.

The problem is.... without the proper certification you may not be allowed to do certain dives without the card.. I know up in the NE there are boats that wount allow you to do the deeper wrecks without a full trimix cert..

Places like Cayman who have just officially started allowing tech diving (yeah I know sunset house and dive tech allowed it) but now the cayman watersports allows it... The catch you are only allowed to dive to certification limits.. If you break your limits the operation is not supposed to let you continue diving whether you paid or not..

the intro trimix for an TDI class is not necessary for full trimix, you have to take adv nitrox + deco procedures followed by EXT range OR entry level trimix, then full trimix... so its the same amount of classes its just how fast you get on mix..


if you already had ext range and had the proper experience, its best just to take the advanced trimix, if on the otherhand you are relatively new at tech diving the extra class can be a benefit...

 

[DeepTechScuba]

The NOAA Diving Manual in the trimix chapter speaks of air diving as having its limits to about 150 ft, and trimix diving applicable beyond that.

The TDI Basic Trimix cards state their certification limit as 200 ft.

And the TDI Advanced Trimix cards state on them that their certification is limited to 330 ft.

The NOAA Manual in their trimix diving chapter also states that it is their policy for any dives to 400 fsw and beyond to use a saturation diving procedure rather than scuba.

That seems to define the frontier limits of scuba fairly clearly.

Having read PScubaPro's comments on the boat requirements in the Atlantic and Caribbean, I am glad TDI states their diving certification limits on their cards.

I do not know if IANTD does this as well, or not.

Back to the original question, as to whether or not to go with IANTD or TDI, either one or even several other options seems fine to me, as long as you GO ALL THE WAY and make sure you finish up with the advanced trimix certification.

I do not know if GUE is "recognized" on the Atlantic Coast or in the Caribbean? I guess you would have to ask the boat captains?!

 

[DeepScuba]

I would hope (and if it's not the same, I think it's a bit of a crock) that the NE charters would accept "Basic" Trimix (TDI max depth of 200ft) would be enough to do, say, the Doria.

Since you have to do all the courses before that, you know darn well that anyone that has the Basic Trimix course already, probably knows what they are doing....and if not, well, it's your a$$.

Didn't what-his-name say that, as the boat Captain, it's his job to get you to the wrecks and not to do the dive for you.

I like that philosophy.

This would ensure that you'd better come prepared, with a buddy/team you trust. AS it should be.

We are certainly "carded" to death anymore. ANd it isn't ALL for our own good, but more so for the good of "another course" for the Tech agencies.

regards.

Start flamethrowers now

ut:

 

[padiscubapro]

DeepScuba once bubbled...
I would hope (and if it's not the same, I think it's a bit of a crock) that the NE charters would accept "Basic" Trimix (TDI max depth of 200ft) would be enough to do, say, the Doria.

Since you have to do all the courses before that, you know darn well that anyone that has the Basic Trimix course already, probably knows what they are doing....and if not, well, it's your a$$.

Didn't what-his-name say that, as the boat Captain, it's his job to get you to the wrecks and not to do the dive for you.

I like that philosophy.

This would ensure that you'd better come prepared, with a buddy/team you trust. AS it should be.

We are certainly "carded" to death anymore. ANd it isn't ALL for our own good, but more so for the good of "another course" for the Tech agencies.

regards.

Start flamethrowers now

ut:

the 200ft trimix limit wouldn't fly on many boats especially when diving the doria.. Check out a few of the websites for NE dive boats..

here is a quote right off the seeker's website

"All participants are required to have the proper certification for dives in which they are participating, based on current industry training standards. For dives beyond 190 f.s.w. you must have Trimix certification, (Normoxic trimix is not applicable). The only exceptions will be for students with their instructors, doing certification dives. A photocopy of each participants certification card is required for dives beyond 190 f.s.w."

besides fullfilling this

"You must provide SEEKER ( Deep Explorers, Inc.) with the following for dives beyond the 190’ level:

a completed, signed and notarized Liability Release. This must be done a minimum of 48 hours prior to departure.
a completed copy of the Diver's Data Sheet and physicians note if necessary. This is to be kept on the boat in case of an emergency.
a legible photocopy of both sides of your certification card (Trimix)
a legible photocopy of your current DAN Master Insurance, or equivalent"

 

[padiscubapro]

DeepTechScuba once bubbled...
The NOAA Diving Manual in the trimix chapter speaks of air diving as having its limits to about 150 ft, and trimix diving applicable beyond that.

The TDI Basic Trimix cards state their certification limit as 200 ft.

And the TDI Advanced Trimix cards state on them that their certification is limited to 330 ft.

The NOAA Manual in their trimix diving chapter also states that it is their policy for any dives to 400 fsw and beyond to use a saturation diving procedure rather than scuba.

That seems to define the frontier limits of scuba fairly clearly.

Having read PScubaPro's comments on the boat requirements in the Atlantic and Caribbean, I am glad TDI states their diving certification limits on their cards.

I do not know if IANTD does this as well, or not.

Back to the original question, as to whether or not to go with IANTD or TDI, either one or even several other options seems fine to me, as long as you GO ALL THE WAY and make sure you finish up with the advanced trimix certification.

I do not know if GUE is "recognized" on the Atlantic Coast or in the Caribbean? I guess you would have to ask the boat captains?!

ANDI lists the requirements and limitations in detail for every certification level.. Full trimix has no depth restrictions (based solely on experience and available support), the only restriction is during training the dives are limited to 100m/327 fsw.

 

[padiscubapro]

DeepScuba once bubbled...
I would hope (and if it's not the same, I think it's a bit of a crock) that the NE charters would accept "Basic" Trimix (TDI max depth of 200ft) would be enough to do, say, the Doria.

Since you have to do all the courses before that, you know darn well that anyone that has the Basic Trimix course already, probably knows what they are doing....and if not, well, it's your a$$.

Didn't what-his-name say that, as the boat Captain, it's his job to get you to the wrecks and not to do the dive for you.

I like that philosophy.

This would ensure that you'd better come prepared, with a buddy/team you trust. AS it should be.

We are certainly "carded" to death anymore. ANd it isn't ALL for our own good, but more so for the good of "another course" for the Tech agencies.

regards.

Start flamethrowers now

ut:

If you came to me for a trimix fill, the first thing I as for is you C card.. depending on the agency the basic trimix will allow somehwere around 18% oxygen... thats the leanest mix you would get from me.. any fill station that gives you a hypoxic mix is opening themselves up to being sued if you kill yourself..

limiting yourself to a po2 of 1.4 would limit your depth to 223fsw, not deep enough for the sand on the doria or any pary of u-who, the carolina, or any of the really good wrecks up here..

You would have to push you PO2 to the neighborhood of 1.6 to dive these wrecks..

 

[Scuba_Vixen]

Follow a pretty logical break point between the two. Entry is strictly a normoxic mix course.... You can breath backgas at the surface, and descend on it..(worst case scneario, you could deco on it too)......depth is limited by PO2. (Although 200' seems to be pushing it for 21%, which is TDI's definition of normoxic. Others consider 18% to 24% inclusive to be normoxic, which would cover 200' to 220' nicely, so I guess it's a bit of gray area there). ......Also, you don't have to carry 2 deco gasses for efficient deco...(obviously that changes with experience and longer run time dives).... one cylinder isn't so hard to manage as your mind is preoccupied somewhat with different deco profiles than you were used to before mix. On the other hand, Advanced is their hypoxic course, and involves a greater level of planning, task loading, and equipment management skills. You can't breath the backgas at the surface anymore, so you have to "travel" on something else.....usually your deep deco mix, but could be an intermediate trimix for 10% or 12% O2 bottom mixes.... And now you have at least 1 or 2 more cylinders and switches to manage. When you get to hypoxic mix, the error chain gets Real short, and the number of non-fatal/serious injury errors gets Real small. I like seeing the courses seperated like that. ....However....I'm still trying to understand why you can bypass Entry Tri if you do Extd. Range instead...... Nearest I can guess is they figure if you can handle a controlled ascent and a couple deco gasses after having the snot narced out of you, you can handle about anything.

BTW...My card says 300', not 330'...has it changed?


Darlene

 

[DeepScuba]

Thanks for the info padiscubapro

By the way, I'm a certified gas blender and mix and dive my own Trimix if I want to, without the (Trimix) card!!!!:wacko:

NOW start the flame-throwers!!!!!!!!

I guess I know "Which" of my "Instructor" buddies are coming with me to do the Doria!!!

Hahah

Where there's a will, there's a way!

SEEKER!!!! I thought they didn't even ask!!!!!

Hahahahah

P.S> Like I've said padiscubapro, I know the math, and the rest is just diving experience, card or no card at THAT Point. I'm NOT talking padi OW to TDI Full Trimix in a week!

Ooooohhh I can feel the heat already on the seat of my pants!!!!

regards, kids.

 

[padiscubapro]

Scuba_Vixen once bubbled...
Follow a pretty logical break point between the two. Entry is strictly a normoxic mix course.... You can breath backgas at the surface, and descend on it..(worst case scneario, you could deco on it too)......depth is limited by PO2. (Although 200' seems to be pushing it for 21%, which is TDI's definition of normoxic. Others consider 18% to 24% inclusive to be normoxic, which would cover 200' to 220' nicely, so I guess it's a bit of gray area there). ......Also, you don't have to carry 2 deco gasses for efficient deco...(obviously that changes with experience and longer run time dives).... one cylinder isn't so hard to manage as your mind is preoccupied somewhat with different deco profiles than you were used to before mix. On the other hand, Advanced is their hypoxic course, and involves a greater level of planning, task loading, and equipment management skills. You can't breath the backgas at the surface anymore, so you have to "travel" on something else.....usually your deep deco mix, but could be an intermediate trimix for 10% or 12% O2 bottom mixes.... And now you have at least 1 or 2 more cylinders and switches to manage. When you get to hypoxic mix, the error chain gets Real short, and the number of non-fatal/serious injury errors gets Real small. I like seeing the courses seperated like that. ....However....I'm still trying to understand why you can bypass Entry Tri if you do Extd. Range instead...... Nearest I can guess is they figure if you can handle a controlled ascent and a couple deco gasses after having the snot narced out of you, you can handle about anything.

BTW...My card says 300', not 330'...has it changed?


Darlene

per latest TDI update.. entry level trimix is to have a minimum of 18% oxygen

Dpending on how a class is done entry level is definately not necessary..

ANDI never even had an "entry" level class until just a few years ago and the addition was because in some areas they were unable get the required depth for certification..

The difference between full and entry is basically task loading.. in the ANDI program EXT range has a limit of 50m no deeper than the technical diver class, the main differance is dive duration (required deco) and number of cylinders carried..

Our progression is currently technical diver, ext range then full trimix.. for CCR classes, technical RB diver then full trimix..

If you are trained to handle the task loading the baby step is not necessary.. My feeling is that TDI is now treating ext range and entry level as equivalent programs which if taught correctly they are..