I told you it was all over. This is the proof.....

[Christi]

No longer do they love divers, they just tollerate them. Divers don't really affect the local economy like they used to since they are now the minority of visitors. Cruise ships are the bread-and-butter so everything from ferry schedules to store/restaurant schedules are set around the cruise ships.

Again, I highly disagree. While the cruise ships are good for the OVERALL economy, only a very few directly benefit and "get rich" from them. The daily bread and butter of MOST are still the divers and land based tourists. Hotels don't benefit directly from cruise ships, dive shops don't benefit from cruise ship divers (except for the few who are the cruise ship sponsored ops), and the restaurants don't thrive on cruise ship business - because most of the cruise shippers don't eat at the local restaurants except for those on the waterfront that are convenient or familiar chains. The favorite island restaurants do not live or die based on the cruise ship business - it simply isn't true.

 

[Mike]

Personally, unless you are a resident here, you really have no idea of the value and added quality of life and job opportunities that has been added for the locals - don't you think that they deserve this? (not just ex-pats and more conveniences)

While I am not a fan of the heavy cruise ship traffic here - I do think they benefit the island from an economic standpoint, whether or not individual shops or tour operators benefit directly from them. It's a trickle down effect and the ships pump money into the economy here - period. Where do you think the money to improve the streets came from? The money to widen and repair the road around the island? What about the THOUSANDS of jobs created for the simple fact that there are more people to accommodate on tours and activities?

These jobs ARE for the locals - and therefore the locals are able to have a little more disposable income to buy groceries, cars, gas for their cars, etc. etc. - You have to look at the BIG picture to really understand and respect the positive effects the cruise ship industry does have on the island - even if it's only from an economic standpoint (which is the way I look at it) - and no, I do not benefit directly from the cruise ship passengers - so that is not what this is about.

Again though it's a chicken or the egg thing.

A lot of the 'locals' are from the main land of Mexico who move to Cozumel for the jobs. The streets are better because there are more people who moved to Cozumel for the jobs and made you need better streets.. and on and on the hamster in the wheel spins...

Consider all the businesses and people who DON'T live on Roatan right now but who will later if it goes the way Cozumel.

Inflation and the cost of living rises as an island develops keeping most of the gains in quality of life off-set by the need to increase your income to afford them.

 

[DandyDon]

Yes, there is a dedicated boat for the cruise ship people that they use to ship them back and forth - but it's planned for so that is not WHY you can't count on ferry schedules.

In fact, the schedules are posted at the beginning of every month and have been running true to schedule for the last several months now. You just have to know which ferry is running at which time. They alternate every other hour based on odd/even days.

Oh, Okee Dokee. Thanks more for the other clarifications. I like the town best when the boats are not there, but still - thanks for the corrections.

 

[robint]

Again, I highly disagree. While the cruise ships are good for the OVERALL economy, only a very few directly benefit and "get rich" from them. The daily bread and butter of MOST are still the divers and land based tourists. Hotels don't benefit directly from cruise ships, dive shops don't benefit from cruise ship divers (except for the few who are the cruise ship sponsored ops), and the restaurants don't thrive on cruise ship business - because most of the cruise shippers don't eat at the local restaurants except for those on the waterfront that are convenient or familiar chains. The favorite island restaurants do not live or die based on the cruise ship business - it simply isn't true.

Christi - I said that I knew the cruiseship $$$$ went to improvements on the island like the roads and streetlights. I never said that it wasn't good financially. What I said is that it is soooooo beneficial financially now that the attitude on the island has changed. I am not the only person who thinks that. I also know other business owner's on the island who have expressed it to me.

Maybe our experience with downtown being a ghost town one night was due to the time of year, August, but maybe not. We asked someone why and that is the answer we got - cruise ships leave, many businesses close for day. Yes, some good restaurants are open, I never said they were ALL closed. But when we are on vacation we want to eat at different places each night and some of our favorite's were closed every time we went by. Maybe they opened back up later, like after 7-8pm, but that was too late for us and had never been a problem on previous trips.

As far as the ferry schedule - we got screwed twice on that in March this year. I couldn't find anything online before we left to go there other than there is always a ferry every hour. Not true. They skip hours sometimes. One time we were over in PDC (diving cenotes) and arrived at ferry at 3pm. The ticket people wouldn't sell us tickets as they were boarding (crap, since there were 100+ people standing in line). Then they told us next ferry wasn't until 5pm as both ferries would be exclusive to cruise ship passengers to get them back and forth. So we had to sit for 2 hours.

 

[Mike]

Maybe our experience with downtown being a ghost town one night was due to the time of year, August, but maybe not. We asked someone why and that is the answer we got - cruise ships leave, many businesses close for day. Yes, some good restaurants are open, I never said they were ALL closed. But when we are on vacation we want to eat at different places each night and some of our favorite's were closed every time we went by. Maybe they opened back up later, like after 7-8pm, but that was too late for us and had never been a problem on previous trips.

To prove your point all you need do is point to the Plaza on a Sunday when no cruise ships are in port. It's dead and a lot of the shops are not open.

 

[RTBDiver]

Maybe our experience with downtown being a ghost town one night was due to the time of year, August, but maybe not.

Not sure if your talking about Coxen Hole or some other downtown but one thing to remember, We are still in the worst economy situation in the US in years, a lot less people are travelling alltogether, then add to that the political situation and the news being spread about it kept plenty of folks away as well.
Its not just a roatan thing, due to heavy rain a week and a half ago we were diverted from Roatan to belize and spent the night, the hotel therewas dead until 100 of us heading to Roatan showed up and bothe Agressor and Peter hughes boats were in port saturday and sunday morning.

 

[Christi]

To prove your point all you need do is point to the Plaza on a Sunday when no cruise ships are in port. It's dead and a lot of the shops are not open.

That is because it's Sunday - nothing to do with the cruise ships. A lot of businesses are closed on Sunday - that's part of the local culture.

Robin, I also didn't say the ferries ran EVERY hour - but the schedules ARE posted. For as long as I can remember, there has been a two or three hour window in the late afternoon when there is not a ferry running. The boats that are running for the cruise ships are completely separate from the regular fleet and have nothing to do with the regular ferry schedule.

August - that's your most likely answer, it's low low season and therefore is vacation season for a lot of people and family owned businesses shut down for a couple of weeks at a time for vacations - so if they were closed every time you went by that's why - nothing at all to do with the cruise ships. September is the same way.

There are also restaurants that are only open for dinner from like 6pm on - or they close between lunch and dinner, or they only open through late lunch - again nothing at all to do with the ship schedules. You have to remember, especially if it's more of a locals place the culture here is to eat late dinners, which are mostly tacos, etc. The big meals are typically eaten at lunch.

With that said, I seriously don't know ANY restaurants that base their hours on the cruise ships schedules - not even McDonalds and Starbucks - because again, the restaurants don't depend on cruise ship traffic, sure they get SOME, but 90% of their business is from locals and island based visitors. Most of the cruisers do their excursions and get back on the ship to eat because it's already paid for.

The t-shirt shops and jewelry stores along the waterfront - that's a different story - they are there for the cruise ships and hours revolve around them. The good quality stores are open late and on Sundays, ie: Cinco Soles, and several in the square.

As I said in my previous post - I would prefer that we didn't have so many ships - but the fact is that we do - and in many ways it's made life a little more convenient here. But I strongly disagree that the island lets the ship industry run it - I just don't see it for the businesses that aren't dependent on the cruisers to begin with. I never built my marketing or business model around them, never depended on them - so things stay relatively unchanged for me (and those who don't obsess over the ships). I occasionally have cruisers on my boats, but only if their schedule works within mine or if they have enough in the group to warrant a separate boat and a later departure, etc.

 

[billmosel]

Christi & robint

Should you not continue this on the Cozumel posting? I believe it has gotten away from ROATAN.

 

[Doc]

Maybe this broader depiction of Cozumel's changes is a good description of what happens to today's "recently modernized" tropical paradises, versus the relatively slow speed Cayman/Bahamian model of the 1960's.

Development no longer comes in terms of decades, it happens in increments of years... soon to be calculated in months. (The world economy is the only governor on that motor)

The changes we saw in Grand Cayman during a ten year period were rapidly eclipsed by Cozumel's evolution in three years.

The kind of changes that took 10+ years to occur in Cozumel is now seems to be taking 6 years on Roatan. It speeds up at an hourly pace.

You were hoping the past would serve as a warning? Be serious.

Cayman muddled along with regular telephone service (copper wires) for far too long when compared to the instantaneous cell phone revolution that struck Roatan in 1993. Cayman radio stations actually featured an afternoon traffic report by airplane. Where you going? There was only one road! In 1990's Roatan got instant telephones, two FM Radio stations and the big one: a paved runway. It took a few extra years to get lights on the runway, but that is another issue on Roatan: the Government's inability to decide who amongst the big fish is going to get rich.

Others here have tried to say how much different Utila is. There are reasons for this. In terms of exploitable resources (real estate, life style, infrastructure and character of diving), it lags far behind. Utila's nadir will be it's relatively low cost (for now) that will entice the overflow from the burgeoning Roatan. When you run short of Diamonds, Garnets start looking pretty nice.

Mark my words, if you live long enough... watch Guanaja.

Other islands are yet to be developed and serviced by regular air flights. I smile when I see these rants go on and on. There are so many un-exploited rocks out there in our own backyard pool, the Mar Caribe. Most people have no idea what is available. Rare, but more somewhat "known future spots" include Los Roques, Northeast Tobago & Northeast Grenada. We have pooped all over our backyard toilet, but some places are less spoiled than others.

Those of us who began diving the Caribbean in the 1960's remember what an adventure a trip to Grand Cayman truly was. We watched it evolve gently and like that crayfish on the stove in warm water reference above. You just didn't notice at first. Soon enough, even the sweeping cleansing currents couldn't keep up with the outflow and siltation. Cozumel is headed that way fast. It's a matter of historical perspective... in 1970 you could flop in the water off of Georgetown and see the Caribbean in all it's underwater glory. It's all gone now. Cozumel is no better. Roatan is right behind, rapidly coming up on the curve. It's a matter of perspective. Ya shoulda' seen it when.... that actually means something.

Talk to an old, experienced, well-traveled diver. I know such serious old-timers... not just internet experts whining about their crappy trip and marginal diving in ________. I know real local experts that simply no longer dive in the waters around their long-term island home. They politely decline the offer to dive with you off of even North Sound at Cayman, or the vaunted Mary's Place of Roatan, even in the Maldives and the Red Sea.

They have seen it when it was un-touched, now they have no desire to go back.

Yet we have a constant parade of happy & thrilled new visitors to the old tried and true local vacation paradise islands. "We went diving in Jamaica and it was the bestest diving and dive shop ever!" You don't know what you don't know.

Yet they complain about "the lack of fish life".... moving on to the next big thing. How little we humans know.

Me? I'm wanting to recreate the poster I saw in Cayman in 1972. It was an U/W image of a SCUBA diver also wearing snow ski gear... skis, boots and poles.... as he was gliding down one of the famous, once vibrantly alive Cayman Walls.

I want to re-do that image on the Roatan Chairlift. Can you just see that photo in your mind?

 

[Christi]

Christi & robint

Should you not continue this on the Cozumel posting? I believe it has gotten away from ROATAN.

I'm simply responding to postings that were posted here - I didn't bring Cozumel up in the Bay Islands forum, I am simply providing corrections to false/inaccurate information.

Although I disagree with many of Robin's statements/claims - because I believe that most of it is either incomplete, lacking a solid foundation for the claim(s) and/or exaggerated in some ways - I don't actually think her posting about CZM was really that much off topic since she was using Cozumel as an example of the growth and change that Roatan fans are worried about.