I told you it was all over. This is the proof.....

[RTBDiver]

I hated to see cruise ports at all. Right now you can still get away from all this nonsense by staying at many of the all inclusives and just staying put for the week. .

Chuck,
Many people worldide also hate to see foriegners work illlegally as well, when you had a go at it in the bay Islands did you have a Honduran Residecy and pay full taxes? Nevermind, we all know the answer to that already.

How does staying put at an all inclusive that most arrive at through that same airport you mention and on those same paved roads get you away from anything? While i sit at my home this morning , on a dirt/gravel road, sounds of the sea and birds, roosters in the distance and the dogs watching the place I really cant imagine ANY AI providing anything closer to Roatan in the past than what is available in the outskirts of the tourist areas. Forget 10 years, lets say it started 20 or so years ago, There were no AI's or lets go back before AKR was a dive resort and the airport consisted of a windsock and dc 3's landed on a dirt runway, How does staying at an AI catering to tourists , Any AI, provide any hint of what Roatan Was and what much of Roatan still is? And while i have enjoyed Aggressor trips, how can you even bring up living on a boat with the only hondurans are staff while at the same time yourmore per weeke than most make in half a year or more, as any better as far as experiencing real Bay Islands? There will always be good old days for someone, the baseline is just different but come on, I see maybe one or two small groups, 3 or 4 people, of cruise folks a week on scooters that got lost and turn around right near my place, the majority of land mass of the Island is still undeveloped, the new cruise port actually works to keep cruisers there so while it hurts independent tour operators it is beneficial to those that that dont like to see the pod folks. And come on Chuck, you lived on Roatan and tried a go at working for tourists yourself so really, does it really matter what kind of tourists your working for or whether they come by boat or plane?

 

[robint]

RTBdiver - I think you miss what I was trying to say about Cozumel. I don't mind tourists, they help the local economy and ensure jobs for the locals. HOWEVER, I do mind what has happened to Cozumel when it comes to the cruise ships --- the cruise companies have bought up a sizeable amount of downtown stores, the entire strip oceanfront in fact and do not employ locals. They bring in their own staff from elsewhere. They even built a "cruise ship shopping mall" right downtown with a walkover bridge so cruisers can stay in A/C. Then they tell the people on the cruises not to stray too far from the main street as it is very dangerous! This means that only the cruise ship companies make any sales to all those thousands of visitors. Many restaurants have now started setting their hours according to cruise ship schedules. We were there 4 yrs ago and found that many restaurants shut down at 6pm as the boats were all pulling out of harbor! We had a hard time finding food several nights for that reason, unless we wanted to go the the mall or McDonald's or KFC.
This is what bother's me most - the fact that the locals no longer run their island, it is completely controlled by the cruise ship industry!
I do not want to see that happen to Roatan, though it probably will eventually.

 

[Mike]

The locals run their island based on the money that enters their cash register.

If you open a business in the tourist section of San Miguel on Cozumel you are catering to tourists and you will set your hours to be open when the tourists are in town. Would you sit in your shop for hours and hours with no customers?

If you open a business in the local section of San Miguel you are catering to the locals and will set your hours to be open when the locals will frequent your business.

San Miguel was a small fishing village at one time. The first shop selling diamonds didn't open up to sell them to the 50 fishermen on the island.

When it comes to our own personal precious mental ownerships of paradise we have to understand the relationship of which came first, the chicken or the egg.

By the way has anybody talked to the locals on Cozumel about earlier this year when the cruise ships didn't come to port for 3-4 weeks due to the swine flue scare? I think it was a wake up call to the island just how dependent they have made themselves to the cruise ship industry. It scared the crap out of a lot of them.

 

[DandyDon]

Well, it wasn't just the barge people who stopped going to Coz earlier this year, but the cruise lines canceling calls there was bad for the locals as the town is indeed largely geared to the boats. Those tourists pretty much stay in town, close to front street and out of my way, but plenty of locals live off the business one way or the other - and many of them moved there for those jobs. I just don't go to town until the boats leave anyway. And I do have to differ with "4 yrs ago and found that many restaurants shut down at 6pm as the boats were all pulling out of harbor! We had a hard time finding food several nights for that reason, unless we wanted to go the the mall or McDonald's or KFC" as I've been going there for longer than that with no problems finding cafes away from front street. It does pay to know where they are and what to ask for by name, but there's always been plenty - altho some of them closed during the tourist scare too. The boat people don't patronize the cafes nearly as much as the overnight tourists I don't think (free food on the boat; why eat in town?), but visits were down all over.

I'm as guilty as any about wanting the places to remain charming and cheap to visit, but get irritated if there's not enough electricity to run my room AC, etc. It is indeed a slippery slope.

It was 11F this morning here. Wish I was in either place.

 

[robint]

Don - I have had 5 trips to Cozumel over the past 10 yrs and I can tell you things have really changed regarding the locals and divers. It is no longer a diver's paradise, it is NOW a cruise ship stop with diving. We do know where to eat, but found several of our favorite restaurants were closing early (when the cruise ships left). Not all did this, but we had favorites that we had always visited in the past. Same thing for little shops selling souvenirs! One night downtown was like a ghost town! It was really weird.
I know the cruise ships $$$$$ has been good for Cozumel in many ways. They now have better roads, street lights, better public toilets, etc. The overall economy of the island is better and "prettier". But I also have seen a change in the personality of the island. No longer do they love divers, they just tollerate them. Divers don't really affect the local economy like they used to since they are now the minority of visitors. Cruise ships are the bread-and-butter so everything from ferry schedules to store/restaurant schedules are set around the cruise ships.

Money talks, and cruise ships are big money for every island where they stop. I used to see a joy in the eyes of the locals, a pride, when they talked about how much they loved their island and couldn't wait to tell you about it and share their local culture and foods. To me, the glow is gone from their eyes.

 

[castaways01]

Right now you can still get away from all this nonsense by staying at many of the all inclusives and just staying put for the week.

Sorry, but even at the AIs, you are not going to escape the pod people. Some of the AIs are participating in the cruise ship excursions. AKR has expanded their on-site day program that offers activities such as a 2 tank dive and dolphin activities. They even purchased additional buses for use at the new Carnival dock. FIBR offers an organized tour of snorkeling, lunch, beach and pool access. They had 2 busloads of cruisers there (wearing blue wrist bands) when I visited a couple of weeks ago.

With an increased schedule of cruise ships in 2010 and beyond (500,000+ passengers), more people will be shuttled to resorts for activities. So, you are not going to escape them.

 

[Christi]

RTBdiver - I think you miss what I was trying to say about Cozumel. I don't mind tourists, they help the local economy and ensure jobs for the locals. HOWEVER, I do mind what has happened to Cozumel when it comes to the cruise ships --- the cruise companies have bought up a sizeable amount of downtown stores, the entire strip oceanfront in fact and do not employ locals. They bring in their own staff from elsewhere. They even built a "cruise ship shopping mall" right downtown with a walkover bridge so cruisers can stay in A/C. Then they tell the people on the cruises not to stray too far from the main street as it is very dangerous! This means that only the cruise ship companies make any sales to all those thousands of visitors. Many restaurants have now started setting their hours according to cruise ship schedules. We were there 4 yrs ago and found that many restaurants shut down at 6pm as the boats were all pulling out of harbor! We had a hard time finding food several nights for that reason, unless we wanted to go the the mall or McDonald's or KFC.
This is what bother's me most - the fact that the locals no longer run their island, it is completely controlled by the cruise ship industry!
I do not want to see that happen to Roatan, though it probably will eventually.

Sorry Robin, but as a 9 year resident and business owner in Cozumel - I have to respectfully disagree with you. It seems as if you've got some very misguided information in your hands.

TRUE: The island has changed in the last 10 years - and we have more cruise ships than we did ten years ago.

But really, what tropical destination DOESN'T experience growth and change - it's a natural part of life and there's nothing any of us can really do to change it.

Personally, unless you are a resident here, you really have no idea of the value and added quality of life and job opportunities that has been added for the locals - don't you think that they deserve this? (not just ex-pats and more conveniences)

FALSE:

the cruise companies have bought up a sizeable amount of downtown stores, the entire strip oceanfront in fact and do not employ locals. They bring in their own staff from elsewhere.

this may be partially true - but mostly not. Employment law in Mexico protects their own. Every company, regardless of who they are must employ 10 Mexican Nationals for EACH foreigner - and if you think this is not enforced, think again. Immigration has made several stings, including hefty fines and deportations of illegal workers from the jewelry stores, etc. over the years - it really helped with this issue. Are there foreigners working in these places that cater to ship traffic? Of course, but not the majority and no more than work in time share sales for the land based tourists - and CERTAINLY not more than we have working ILLEGALLY in the US.

False:

Many restaurants have now started setting their hours according to cruise ship schedules. We were there 4 yrs ago and found that many restaurants shut down at 6pm as the boats were all pulling out of harbor! We had a hard time finding food several nights for that reason, unless we wanted to go the the mall or McDonald's or KFC.
This is what bother's me most - the fact that the locals no longer run their island, it is completely controlled by the cruise ship industry!

WOW, this is quite a claim. Rather than closing because of cruise ships leaving, I'd have to ask what time of year that was OR just where is it that you like to eat? Carlos n Charlies, Sr, Frogs?

True, alot of retail stores along the waterfront close up around 6:00 or 7:00 - but only a few. I can't think of one single restaurant that closes down early when the cruise ships start to pull out - and they most certainly DO NOT run the island. There is all kinds of stuff going on at night for the locals and tourists - unless of course you're wandering around Punta Langosta and Puerta Maya - which ARE the cruise ship ports.

While I am not a fan of the heavy cruise ship traffic here - I do think they benefit the island from an economic standpoint, whether or not individual shops or tour operators benefit directly from them. It's a trickle down effect and the ships pump money into the economy here - period. Where do you think the money to improve the streets came from? The money to widen and repair the road around the island? What about the THOUSANDS of jobs created for the simple fact that there are more people to accommodate on tours and activities?

These jobs ARE for the locals - and therefore the locals are able to have a little more disposable income to buy groceries, cars, gas for their cars, etc. etc. - You have to look at the BIG picture to really understand and respect the positive effects the cruise ship industry does have on the island - even if it's only from an economic standpoint (which is the way I look at it) - and no, I do not benefit directly from the cruise ship passengers - so that is not what this is about.

 

[ncchuck]

RTBDIVER - Yes I was a foreigner working on Roatan. The owner of the operation looked for several weeks to find a local that was a dive instructor to manage the operation. None existed at that time that could get to the remote resort every single day. By being there, I provided good paying jobs (by Roatan standards) to several locals. I never saw a single person on Roatan that paid taxes except for businesses (and the hotel and dive operation both paid taxes). I didn't even know they had an income tax. I often made less than they did though I did have room and lunch provided. My staff also had lunch provided by the way. I lost money while there but I did have a good time and met a lot of great natives and guests. On my last trip back, my only visits were to the homes of some of my native employees. I didn't even go to Paya Bay.
I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make with your comments anyway. As someone else in this forum indicated, only a few people are getting rich from all this new cruise ship oriented development. They are well connected locals many of whom have gotten where they are via corruption. You live there, you know how corrupt it is.
The point I tried to make with staying at an AI was only that you could dive your heart out without having to deal with any cruise ship craziness. As I've said many times, staying at the far east end, gets you away from all of this stuff. I know it won't stay that way but right now you could stay at Reef House for a week and never see a "ski lift". I honestly didn't know some of the AI's were accepting cruise ship guests. That alone is a reason to avoid any that does. I hope people on this forum let divers know which ones are doing that.
The type of "divers" I worked for did matter. I did not and would not "cater" to cruise ship divers. Too risky and too little appreciation of the reef. (not all I'm sure but certainly many) Our operation never had more than 10 divers and we kept it that way on purpose.
I used to like Roatan a lot but cruise ship industry has made it into something that no longer interests me. I'm sure glad I didn't buy property there.

The point is Roatan is changing very quickly and those wishing to dive somewhere a little more "native feeling" may have to start looking elsewhere. I think that was the idea with RoatanMans original post.

 

[Christi]

They pull a Coz-PDC ferry out of service to haul them on those runs. That's why you cannot count on schedules.

Yes, there is a dedicated boat for the cruise ship people that they use to ship them back and forth - but it's planned for so that is not WHY you can't count on ferry schedules.

In fact, the schedules are posted at the beginning of every month and have been running true to schedule for the last several months now. You just have to know which ferry is running at which time. They alternate every other hour based on odd/even days.

 

[scubafanatic]

Its incredible that one mans folly makes so many people believe the end of the world is nigh, get a grip people.

.....if you put a frog into a pot of water, and slowly, gradually bring the pot to a boil, the frog doesn't jump out, it stays put until it's cooked !