I do not agree with, "Dive and Let Dive."

[Vicko]

I'm just wondering who would be the one to clearly state the scuba rules and how do you plan on enforcing them?
We let dive agencies dictate scuba training for decades and on one hand it exploded the sport with millions of new divers every year, on the other hand most of those divers suck at buoyancy control and a good deal look like they are attempting suicide in the most circumspect manner possible.
Are we going to create a new scuba agency that will be the one to rule them all? Do we let the government mess up another perfectly fun activity?

 

[Lorenzoid]

When we see a diver behaving in a way that is potentially detrimental to another diver or the natural environment, the best we can do is gently offer feedback IF the diver seems like they might be receptive. That's all.

 

[johndiver999]

One of the problems I see with the idea of trying to impose one person's idea of prudent dive practices (i.e., "safe") on another person is the issue of shark diving. I've mentioned this issue on several threads, so I won't belabor the point, but it represents a very large gray area in my mind.

Clearly, baiting sharks and also feeding sharks drastically increases the danger of the dive. People have been maimed and killed and many close calls have been documented as well.

This activity is recreational in nature and involves intentionally altering the behavior of dangerous predators.

I'm pretty much opposed to the entire activity, but I'm not sure the people who engage in this activity care (or even should care) about my interpretation of what is unnecessarily dangerous and how THEY should dive.

To be honest, I worry most about the tourist from Iowa who thinks the whole operation is as safe (and as controlled) as a Disney ride - and assumes that the professional operators would not engage in the activity if it were not so.

Nevertheless, attempting to impose one's personal risk tolerance on a community is a slippery slope.

 

[lexvil]

So I'm not capable of diving solo properly unless someone else specifically trains me for it? The (for profit) agencies are the only ones who can dictate what is necessary?
I will agree that someone solo diving in an unsafe manner reflects poorly on the community... But my possession of a piece of plastic does not dictate my skills (or lack there if).
Just playing devil's advocate.
Respectfully,

James

Every dive is a solo dive, sometimes with other people.

 

[Joneill]

One of the problems I see with the idea of trying to impose one person's idea of prudent dive practices (i.e., "safe") on another person is the issue of shark diving. I've mentioned this issue on several threads, so I won't belabor the point, but it represents a very large gray area in my mind.

Clearly, baiting sharks and also feeding sharks drastically increases the danger of the dive. People have been maimed and killed and many close calls have been documented as well.

This activity is recreational in nature and involves intentionally altering the behavior of dangerous predators.

I'm pretty much opposed to the entire activity, but I'm not sure the people who engage in this activity care (or even should care) about my interpretation of what is unnecessarily dangerous and how THEY should dive.

To be honest, I worry most about the tourist from Iowa who thinks the whole operation is as safe (and as controlled) as a Disney ride - and assumes that the professional operators would not engage in the activity if it were not so.

Nevertheless, attempting to impose one's personal risk tolerance on a community is a slippery slope.

Agreed - no baited shark dives for me. No one can seriously claim it is safe or even remotely a good idea - but if folks want to do it, so be it. However, I would hope they understand that, regardless of how many “safety divers” that are watching, you’re still possibly on the menu as in this incident at Beqa Lagoon:

 

[admikar]

I took his statement to mean those who are not solo certified but choose to go off on their own and not dive with their buddy. But I'll let @tursiops clarify.

I'm not solo certified, meaning I don't have a card that says solo anywhere on it. If you dig deep enough into CMAS standards, I can't be bothered, you will see that at my level I am allowed to dive solo.
More importantly, at my local dives, I am way much safer diving on my own than with available buddies.

 

[pauldw]

[quoting someone else] I understand, broadly, that a 'stroke' is considered a dangerous diver (in the DIR world at least)

In context, anyone who isn't a DIR diver, especially virtually all recreational divers.

Calling someone a "stroke" just leads to problems:

 

[BlueTrin]

I'm not solo certified, meaning I don't have a card that says solo anywhere on it. If you dig deep enough into CMAS standards, I can't be bothered, you will see that at my level I am allowed to dive solo.
More importantly, at my local dives, I am way much safer diving on my own than with available buddies.

CMAS has a self rescue diver program but it does not seem to be endorsing diving solo, just to be more self reliant in case of separation:

https://www.cmas.org/document?sessionId=&fileId=2966&language=1

CMAS training programmes and ethos are based on the “Buddy” system of diving. CMAS, in offering Self-Rescue diver training, accepts the real-world fact that divers may, on occasions, become separated from their dive partner and, thus seeks to provide candidates with the knowledge, self- reliant diver skills and techniques to protect themselves in such events.

 

[West is Best]

Diving like every other endeavor is going to have the 5 % who are unreachable. The other 95% IMHO don't want to damage the environment or reduce safety margins and appreciate some helpful hints delivered in a respectful way.

The "experts" who provide unsolicited advice on gear delivered in a pontificating manner can be a bit tiresome but I just nod and smile and ignore them. Since most of them seemed have had a huge magnet when they visited the dive shop I am well into the dive before they even make it to the ladder.

As for the 5 % well stupid is forever and can't be fixed......

 

[rmssetc]

As long as i don't harm the environment or anyone else, ill do what ever the heck i want, thank you.

If i kill myself for being an idiot or reckless that is my problem and my problem alone.

How do you define harming anyone else?

What about the harm to family & friends if you die (or worse still, are permanently disabled) by being an idiot or reckless?

What about the direct harm to people who witness or try to help you due to being an idiot or reckless?

What about the indirect harm due to resources being given to you and not someone else, for example, having first responders attending you, occupying space in a chamber that someone else could have used, etc.?

What about the perceptual harm to all divers if non-divers (including insurance agencies, administrators of public waters, etc) see divers as idiots and reckless?

If you sign a DNR (Do Not Rescue) order with each dive waiver, knowing that no one would do anything at all to help you if you're being an idiot or reckless, then maybe that would shift some of the consequences more to you, affecting others less.