How young to start diving ?

[JRScuba]

No matter what agency you are affiliated with, they all have the same rules and regulations. Where do you think these rules and regulations come from. Data and expeience they are made for one reason I can think of SAFETY.
Just like driving a care. Some say 16 or 17 yo is a good age. Let me see 16 or 17 yo where did that come from, hmmm. Farmers had to get their equipment to and from the fields and who worked in the fields??? The whole family and the children also drove the farm equipment.

Now lets look at today! Why are we saddened when we here of a young driver dies from an accident. Because they are young and their life just was starting to begin. Get the drift?????

Rules are made for the protection of the MAJORITY, unfortunately ( Or fortunately ) the few exceptions have to follow the same rules.

We could go on and on with this, hope you got my point.

Happy holidays to you and your FAMILIES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MikeFerrara]

No matter what agency you are affiliated with, they all have the same rules and regulations. Where do you think these rules and regulations come from. Data and expeience they are made for one reason I can think of SAFETY.
Just like driving a care. Some say 16 or 17 yo is a good age. Let me see 16 or 17 yo where did that come from, hmmm. Farmers had to get their equipment to and from the fields and who worked in the fields??? The whole family and the children also drove the farm equipment.

Now lets look at today! Why are we saddened when we here of a young driver dies from an accident. Because they are young and their life just was starting to begin. Get the drift?????

Rules are made for the protection of the MAJORITY, unfortunately ( Or fortunately ) the few exceptions have to follow the same rules.

We could go on and on with this, hope you got my point.

Happy holidays to you and your FAMILIES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Safety has nothing to do with it. Recently the RSTC removed the minimum age. Several agencies reduced their minimums from 12 to 10. BTW, who makes up the RSTC? They big agencies that's who. The reason they did that is to increase the size of the potential market. It's just business. As long as the statistics look good enough to keep people off their backs they'll continue to incremntally reduce requirements.

 

[DocVikingo]

.. be found linked in the following thread---->

http://www.scubaboard.com/t40895.html

Best regards.

DocVikingo

 

[-hh]

...do not bear this out.

Again, out of all divers, only about 100 a year manage to kill themselves. Looking at the last DAN report I could find, there were no junior diving fatalities and very few injuries.

There were also no diving deaths of pregnant women either, I'd bet.

Yes, its a serious business. So are a lot of other things that kids do. As I've mentioned, I believe that emotional maturity is the gating issue, and it is, unfortunately, not paid the attention it should be in many cases.

I agree that emotional maturity is a critical issue. The best down-to-earth common sense I've heard on the subject is the recommendation of the litmus test of when the parent trusts their child with unsupervised operation of the household's BEST automobile (specifically _not_ the old clunker).

There are also basic physical suitability questions, and these will never be satisfactorally resolved, because it is medically unethical to run the experiment to gather the data. My personal approach is more immediately observable and pragmatic: is the subject physically big/strong enough to carry/handle their own gear? If not, then they shouldn't be diving.

And FWIW, my assessment of physical ability is not just if they can lift a 30+lb tank once: they need to be big/strong enough for multiple lifts, and without any significant risk of a life-changing back injury.

The latter is harder to determine, but existing Human Engineering biomedical research can be applied: someone ~5ft tall and ~100lbs is a rough approximation of the anthropometrics of a 5th Percentile Adult American Female, and I'm sorry that I have to report that the risk of a half dozen 3ft high lifts or 30ft horizontal carries of ~40lb pieces of dive gear within an 8 hour period has been determined to be a sufficiently significant risk such that the HE design standards recommend redesigning the process/product to avoid the exposure. If it were my child (or wife), I'd call that risk unacceptable.

Overall, "childhood" is a diving contra-indicator just like pregnancy: both are temporary conditions that will resolve themselves given time. Since scuba is not a life-essential activity, such an avoidable risk is hard to justify.


-hh

 

[Genesis]

By the standard you cited for physical size my g/f could not dive. She's barely 5' tall and just over 100lbs!

Yet she does. Yeah, I help her with gear, and when diving on my boat often pull her gear back in for her.

I don't disagree that there are real issues with kids diving - but I would argue that most of them are issues of emotional maturity rather than physical when one gets to the teen years. And yes, many kids in their teens are simply unable to handle the evaluation and risks of diving.

 

[MikeFerrara]

My view on kids and diving have changed big time over the last few years.

First of all most kids can master the skills faster than their parents who have sat in front of the TV for many years getting fat and weak and losing whatever coordination they may have once had.

But under 12 they must dive with a parent or dive pro. I know what in theory qualifies the pro to supervise them in the water but what qualifies the parent? I had many families come into the shop to start diving together. I passed on the kids and often lost the whole family.

In one case I had dived with the father. In fact he paniced and left his buddy on a dive. The buddy was my wife. He later wanted me to certify his 10 yo little girl so she could dive with him. That'll be the day. I explained in detail why I wouldn't do it. Of course he just got her certified some place else. He later came back to tell me how well she did. As most of you know I'm past the point of tip-toeing around issues so I again explained that I was never worried about her ability and that my concern was the fact that he couldn't dive worth a darn.

He can do what he wants with his family but I have the right to not contribute to the delinquency of an idiot.

A few months ago I had the displeasure of seeing a lady panic underwater.....long story short (I've posted it before) later I ran into her very young little boy who told me at length about his experience watching hi smother shoot to the surface and be pulled from the water screaming.

I am very glad that it's not my name on their cards.

I certified my kids at 13. My daughter never really liked diving and my son has only dived with me until recently. He's 18 now. If I did it over I wouldn't have certified them so early.
I don't know if it's right or wrong to let kids dive or that there are any absolutes. I do know that I don't want anything to do with it.

 

[-hh]

By the standard you cited for physical size my g/f could not dive. She's barely 5' tall and just over 100lbs!

Yet she does. Yeah, I help her with gear, and when diving on my boat often pull her gear back in for her.

And you helping her puts you at higher risk for excessive lifts per 8 hour period.

The "bible" for this kind of stuff is MIL-HDBK-759 and MIL-STD-1472. You can download copies from URL: http://hfetag.dtic.mil/hfs_docs.html#STDs

In MIL-HDBK-1472, I suggest people specifically check out sections 5.9.11.3.1 (Lifting limits) and 5.9.11.3.2 (Lifting frequency), think about how many times you lift and carry your scuba tanks to do a dive, and then do the math for what the safe repetitive design load limit is.

For me personally, it explains why nearly every _former_ local diver I know had to give up the sport because they suffered multiple back injuries.

I don't disagree that there are real issues with kids diving - but I would argue that most of them are issues of emotional maturity rather than physical when one gets to the teen years. And yes, many kids in their teens are simply unable to handle the evaluation and risks of diving.

If I had to pick which one was the greater concern, I'd pick maturity too. My point is merely that both have not insignificant safety issues to consider.

-hh

 

[Genesis]

Well, yes and no.

We take pretty good care of this on the boat - its in and out, no big deal. Plus I usually dive doubles, and a single is pretty light after that, especially a single AL or LP72 tank.

My g/f's daughter is 14, and she dives with me sometimes. She's pretty new at it, but has the right attitude, and has no problem with giving me the thumb if things aren't right. I have no issue with her being in the water with me at all.

There ARE plenty of teens I've seen certified though that I don't think should be in the water. They are just too much into the "superman" thing, and that can easily get you killed underwater.

The argument of "that risk is unacceptable" is all nice and well, but it would have to be applied to a lot of other sports - like snow (or water!) skiing, for example. Both of those sports come with a significant risk of serious injury or even death, and yet both are commonly enjoyed by kids of almost all ages.

Scuba has a few unique characteristics, but the "worst" one is the physical requirement to carry the gear out of the water. That can be minimized by boat diving, but not eliminated. The emotional maturity issue though is tougher and simply cannot be ignored - nor should it be for the other sports that involve the risk of significant injury or worse (which is most of them to one degree or another.)

 

[Diver0001]

What are the generally accepted thoughts on teaching children to dive ? I know a little about SSI and Scuba Rangers, but what about kids actually diving before that ?

My 5 year old has taken to an octopus rig in shallow (less than 10 feet) water. He's an accomplished swimmer, and has an incredible ability to hold his breath under water (but not while diving...) My 4 year old is on his heels...

Is there a risk here that I may be unware of ? I'm not looking to take him on any extended trips, but at what age can I reasonably expect to get him into a BC with his own tank and have him dive with me ? Again - no deco dives - but shallow, short dives would be fun with him untethered <g>.

Thanks -

Todd

(haven't read the other responses yet so please forgive me if I'm being redundant)

Todd,

To put this as nicely as I can......

STOP.

STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP!!!!!!!

You are going to kill you child like this. Maybe not today. Maybe not the next time but the first time something "weird" happens and your child bolts to the surface with a lung full of air then you'll be just in time to hear the wheezing squeeeeeeek of tiny kid lungs blown to hell by a barotrauma and it will be YOUR fault. When he/she gasps and sputters and coughs out bloody lung tissue and says "Daddy, help me" you WILL NOT be able to. You will be able to *panic* and to *scream* and to *regret* (maybe after the fact) and to watch your child die a *terrible* death but you will NOT be able to help. It will be over. And it will happen in the *one* second that your attention lapsed. "Accomplished" swimmer (if this term can even be applied to a 5-year old) or not. And *who* will get the Darwin award for that?

This may sound all melodramatic but I'm trying to save you from what is surely the stupidest thing you have *ever* done.... unless, of course, you let them play with guns for fun.

Wait until they have the ability to stop-breath-think-do...... 12....14.....something like that.

R..

 

[Seadiver5]

I will admit that I have not yet read many of the responses to this thread but I wanted to put my .o2 in anyway

I am personally an IDEA scuba instructor and I was very hesitant to allow my 8 year old son to take part in the PADI seal team program but he won the opportunity at a local dive fair so after talking with the instructors I decided to let him do it.

I have to tell you I was amazed by how well each and every students performed, there were both boys and girls in the class mostly 8 and 9 year olds.

They listened better than most adults I have ever seen and definitely better than most of the teenagers that I have seen.

They mastered and yes I mean Mastered their skills in what I would consider record time and had a blast doing it. Several of the kids began pulling off their own masks underwater and cleared them just because they found it to be fun...

While I don't believe they should be out diving in the open water until they are at least 12 and I prefer 14 yrs old. I think its great for them to have fun diving in a swimming pool.

Kevin Parkhurst
IDEA instructor 3402